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The story has not changed. You must order from the dealer as the key is preprogrammed when delivered.
P38 Keys and Key fobs
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It is possible to use secondhand key fobs as long as the Lockset Bar Code of the donor vehicle is known. If it is not known, a main dealer should be able to find it out from the VIN No. but may require proof of ownership - difficult if the keys are bought on fleabay. Also assuming the locks have not previously been changed and the key is the correct frequency for the country.
Once the 14 digit Lockset Bar Code is known, the 9 digit key Fob Code can be found. The Blackbox Systems Faultmate forum can supply it. The new Fob Code can then be entered and saved in the BECM to allow synchronisation.
A mixture of keys from different cars obviously cannot be used.
Once the 14 digit Lockset Bar Code is known, the 9 digit key Fob Code can be found. The Blackbox Systems Faultmate forum can supply it. The new Fob Code can then be entered and saved in the BECM to allow synchronisation.
A mixture of keys from different cars obviously cannot be used.
Or if you have the SM035 Faultmate module and the old BECM that the keys come from you can read the 3x 3 digit fob codes out of the old module and program them into another BECM to get the keys to work. I have a few sets of fobs from vehicles that have been scrapped, which I've kept record of the fob codes for, just in case someone wants a set of keys, then the remotes can be programmed.
Still easier if you know that the BECM/lockset is original to just get a key from the dealer... I'm looking forward to getting my spare one from them when JLR pull their finger out - it's been 5 weeks now!
Hi i was just about to order a key for my p38 when i came across this post.i had no idea about keys 1,2 or 3,so glad i found this before i ordered my new key.Just to confirm then i bought the car with key no1,so if i order a key to be programmed to key no 2 i should be fine is that correct thanks
the issue of keys 1 2 3 or 4 - when i ordered a 2nd key for my 2nd RR Stratstone Doncaster showed me the parts listing on their dealer pc = numbers 3 and 4 were no longer listed, (they were all listed back in 2012 when i had to replace a broken unit on my previous RR) said i wanted no,2 and when they entered the part number it automatically listed part number for key 1 which i verified with them so whilst i now have 2 keys if i want to use it i have resync the key to the car - disabling the other key so no preset seat positions for me and the wife/
just an expensive spare. if the us dealers can still supply other numbered keys it may warrant a call to JLR UK asking why.....
just an expensive spare. if the us dealers can still supply other numbered keys it may warrant a call to JLR UK asking why.....
so as you say,all i would be buying is a spare back up key in case i lose my original,suppose it is better than nothing thanks for the replythe issue of keys 1 2 3 or 4 - when i ordered a 2nd key for my 2nd RR Stratstone Doncaster showed me the parts listing on their dealer pc = numbers 3 and 4 were no longer listed, (they were all listed back in 2012 when i had to replace a broken unit on my previous RR) said i wanted no,2 and when they entered the part number it automatically listed part number for key 1 which i verified with them so whilst i now have 2 keys if i want to use it i have resync the key to the car - disabling the other key so no preset seat positions for me and the wife/
Effectively, yes...
Though it can't hurt to ask if you can get it as a key 2... I don't see there being any difference these days physically as it has to just be a different ID the key is programmed to. I don't understand why they can't be done - if the same programmer is used to program a key 1 for example.
I guess I am lucky with mine - I got given Key 2 when i bought it so have been able to order a spare Key 1...
Though it can't hurt to ask if you can get it as a key 2... I don't see there being any difference these days physically as it has to just be a different ID the key is programmed to. I don't understand why they can't be done - if the same programmer is used to program a key 1 for example.
I guess I am lucky with mine - I got given Key 2 when i bought it so have been able to order a spare Key 1...
Is there any way of knowing what key I already have? I've only got one for the ex-plod and the label was scraped off years ago so it could be any of them. I've got the lockset barcode on the printout that I got from LR when I needed to find out the EKA code although I doubt that is going to be much use to me. I'm actually not sure what I'd do with a spare key. Unless I lost my key then I wouldn't need it. If I left it in the house then I'd be stuffed if I lost it while I'm 1,000 miles away from home so ideally I'd need to find somewhere I could leave it with the car where I could get to it if I ever needed it.
Not unless you have memory electric seats, no.
I found mine out as you can 'lazy unlock' the vehicle if it's superlocked - and if it's a Key 1 or 2, then it will move the seat to either preset 1 or 2 respectively. I set my presets at opposite ends of the travel, superlocked it, and then lazy unlocked and found the seat moved to preset 2 to match with Key 2.
Other than that, I don't know of any other way of telling. I've been thinking about trying to read the data stream from the RF receiver to the BECM and then do it with both keys (when my other one finally arrives) and see if it's possible to identify what tells the BECM its key ID.
I found mine out as you can 'lazy unlock' the vehicle if it's superlocked - and if it's a Key 1 or 2, then it will move the seat to either preset 1 or 2 respectively. I set my presets at opposite ends of the travel, superlocked it, and then lazy unlocked and found the seat moved to preset 2 to match with Key 2.
Other than that, I don't know of any other way of telling. I've been thinking about trying to read the data stream from the RF receiver to the BECM and then do it with both keys (when my other one finally arrives) and see if it's possible to identify what tells the BECM its key ID.
hi Marty = your'e right of course re the seat settings to find if 1 or 2 remembering neither 3 nor 4 can move the seats remotely always assuming the car has electric seats (that work!) - my first car was a 4.0 SE without elec seats (less to go wrong LOL)
I will decide later what to do with the fleabay fob, perhaps i'll try and transplant my exsisting 'good' fobs internals into the fleabay carcass - which is in really good shape much better than my orobi all
Beware some of those cases, I can only remember 1 that I purchased that the existing blade actually fitted, sorry can't remember which 1, was a few years back
Beware some of those cases, I can only remember 1 that I purchased that the existing blade actually fitted, sorry can't remember which 1, was a few years back
Marty,
I tried to do exactly this, using a USB Scope / Logic Analyser, plus SDR Receiver. Problem was inconsistent data stream from the FOB. I suspect it work better using a P38 receiver (even older version should work).
I tried to do exactly this, using a USB Scope / Logic Analyser, plus SDR Receiver. Problem was inconsistent data stream from the FOB. I suspect it work better using a P38 receiver (even older version should work).
The RF signal from the fob to the receiver is on a rolling algorithm, so the signal will vary every time. The part that does the coding is a National Semiconductor COP8622C. The Motorola BECM CPU also contains the same algorithm at the other end. The COP processor could probably be hacked. `)
Yeah, I figured the COP chip was the bit that did all the work in the FOB, and having a read through the data sheet is interesting, but don't think there is any easy way of retrieving the information from it.
I managed to get a hold of a programmer from eBay which apparently will program the Motorola CPU units... so I'm going to see if I can hook it up when I'm back from work and see if I can talk to it.
I have a couple of logic boards at home which have multiple faults on them, so messing about with one of the CPU chips on them isn't going to be an issue if I somehow destroy it!!!!
I have a spare 3rd gen receiver which was in a vehicle we stripped for parts awhile ago, so thinking of seeing if that data stream sent to the BECM can be captured and then analysed as it should hopefully be a more pure data stream.
Probably all a bit beyond me when I get into it, but will be fun to try and get anything out of it.
Pwood999, if you are interested in taking another look at some point, then it would be great to have another set of eyes on it!
Dave3d... you make good points too... there has to be some way of capturing the stream and analysing it, as otherwise the remote fob services that can clone the remotes and basically give you a second one of the same key number would be out of a job. I am guessing they identify the algorithm, decode the data in it and then program it back to a blank chip. What would be good is to see about capturing data from a key 1 and key 2 of the same lockset, and then being able to decode it and see what differences there are which may identify what the key ID is.
Probably a lot of work for little to no gain! But maybe a fun project. ..
Oh and I tested a theory you mentioned to me awhile ago with the BECM / instrument cluster connection and it does indeed work.
I managed to get a hold of a programmer from eBay which apparently will program the Motorola CPU units... so I'm going to see if I can hook it up when I'm back from work and see if I can talk to it.
I have a couple of logic boards at home which have multiple faults on them, so messing about with one of the CPU chips on them isn't going to be an issue if I somehow destroy it!!!!
I have a spare 3rd gen receiver which was in a vehicle we stripped for parts awhile ago, so thinking of seeing if that data stream sent to the BECM can be captured and then analysed as it should hopefully be a more pure data stream.
Probably all a bit beyond me when I get into it, but will be fun to try and get anything out of it.
Pwood999, if you are interested in taking another look at some point, then it would be great to have another set of eyes on it!
Dave3d... you make good points too... there has to be some way of capturing the stream and analysing it, as otherwise the remote fob services that can clone the remotes and basically give you a second one of the same key number would be out of a job. I am guessing they identify the algorithm, decode the data in it and then program it back to a blank chip. What would be good is to see about capturing data from a key 1 and key 2 of the same lockset, and then being able to decode it and see what differences there are which may identify what the key ID is.
Probably a lot of work for little to no gain! But maybe a fun project. ..
Oh and I tested a theory you mentioned to me awhile ago with the BECM / instrument cluster connection and it does indeed work.
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good evening and hello im writing to you all the way from the bahamas i bought a flebay key fob and i really just need it to work to secure the vehicle rite now the door handle key hole is not operable being that the piece that holds the hook to the actuator for when you turn the key is broken so what im really needing to now is can the fob be programmed without the key being inserted into the door? i hate having to leave my rr open to the thieves its a 1997 4.0 p 38
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Instead of doing partial fixes and wasting time trying to rig something so basic just fix your keyway and/or latch. At the rate you are going you will end up with your BeCM locked down and be spending alot more than the basic fix you are looking at now.
As RRTH says, you can't just buy any old fob and have it programmed to suit your vehicle. AFAIK nobody worldwide can yet do this. Your options (assuming you have the original BECM/ ECU) are to buy a new handle and fob from Land Rover, test your latches as per Marty's sticky at top and away you go, probably around £750 lighter.
You could buy a used guaranteed matched set of working fob, door handle, BECM, ECU and ignition switch and probably door latch off the Bay, do Marty's tests and away you go for less, but you may still need access to someone with programming kit to sync it. Depends how much trust you have in the seller.
If you just buy a used handle and matching key, do the latch tests, get the EKA code from LR (assuming original electronics are still in place) and have someone local to re-sync BECM/ ECU and disable passive immobilisation you might get away with it for a while, but, sooner or later, it'll lock itself down and you'll be back in the same bad place again.
If you have the original fob for the car, you can get it repaired and cloned and get a local auto locksmith to put your original lock into a replacement handle. Still need fully working latches though.
You could buy a used guaranteed matched set of working fob, door handle, BECM, ECU and ignition switch and probably door latch off the Bay, do Marty's tests and away you go for less, but you may still need access to someone with programming kit to sync it. Depends how much trust you have in the seller.
If you just buy a used handle and matching key, do the latch tests, get the EKA code from LR (assuming original electronics are still in place) and have someone local to re-sync BECM/ ECU and disable passive immobilisation you might get away with it for a while, but, sooner or later, it'll lock itself down and you'll be back in the same bad place again.
If you have the original fob for the car, you can get it repaired and cloned and get a local auto locksmith to put your original lock into a replacement handle. Still need fully working latches though.
I will agree to really try to fix the latch, I have done it several times and it is a bit tedious but take a look,
The drivers latch can easily be removed by unscrewing and unclipping the red connector, then unclip the inside handle line and lean it forward
then you can undo the handle and inside lock. Reverse to install. The red clip may be able to be replaced with the HELP clips at auto stores.
Rear latches need the metal panel to be removed but it is no that hard. Good luck
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The drivers latch can easily be removed by unscrewing and unclipping the red connector, then unclip the inside handle line and lean it forward
then you can undo the handle and inside lock. Reverse to install. The red clip may be able to be replaced with the HELP clips at auto stores.
Rear latches need the metal panel to be removed but it is no that hard. Good luck
hi i am a newbie to the p38 in Australia i have a 2001 . can i get a fob from the locksmith or similar for my p38 or go to land rover . i am using the blade only at the moment the guy i bought it from said the fob doesn't work .
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