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That is what can happen if the motor is turned in an anti clockwise direction. The plastic part of the tensioner has a "hook" shaped lower end to prevent it from moving.

Perhaps you turned it anti clockwise at some point? Maybe while you were dismantling? In which case the displaced parts of the tensioner are not the cause of your reduced performance code.
It occurred to me that this is probably the reason for the warnings against counter rotation. I don't think that happened, but probably did a little with all the gyrations to get the crank pully out.

However, the mystery is... I see no trace of the other one! I believe p0019 is the bank on that side. I can believe the visible one was a result of my efforts, but the other one completely gone? just can't see it.

BTW- 155k, I've had her since 85k/2016. First trouble...
 
Discussion starter · #42 ·
That is strange. I have not heard of a 5.0 engine shedding the plastic tensioner parts. So I wonder where it is? That is a worry because you need to remove it from the engine and if it is in pieces and in the sump, there is no easy way to retrieve them.

I cant answer your question in post 36 about checking the timing during the zip tie procedure but I think if you keep turning the engine over by hand, the timing paint marks will eventually line up again. Alternatively you could fit the flywheel timing pin and cross refer to another motor with the pin fitted to see if the VVT units are aligned but I dont know if that is accurate enough.

Its worth considering engine removal and partial dismantling which would then be a good time to replace the chains. Sorry I cant offer an easy solution.
 
I can see one victim of the missing tensioner is the oiler for bank 2 is not showing where it should be. I didn't notice at first but the bank 1 tensioner's plastic has slid off and is resting on the inside of the oil pan.

An alternative to spinning the engine forever to get timing marks to line up - You can use a paint pen on the timing chain in each of the 3 locations with the crank pinned / cams locked or a spot where the chain is tight between both cams. Then roll the motor over and count how many links between each of your new markings and the original markings on the chain. They should all be in relation to one another. If you need more clearance to see the tops of the VVT units, you can try to turn the injectors 90 degrees and lift the valve cover up a little more. According to another post, that's doable with penetrating oil.

@ghur is right, the guide is likely in pieces at the bottom of the oil pan. Guessing pieces of the guides will come out when you change the oil and a mess will be sitting at the bottom of the oil pan. The oil pump intake screen will likely be clogged. Have a look with a borescope. The windage tray will likely prevent you from getting the pieces out with the engine in place.


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Hopefully the pickup screen doesn't get clogged..removing the oil pan on a 5.0 includes removing the transmission!
 
This video’s comments have a lot of useful info. I think the guy mentions it in the comments that the timing marks align after 15 rotations. He reused the old crank bolt as long as it hasn’t stretched and he has not seen one stretched, uses a universal puller to take off the crank pulley, he marks everything and takes off the chains from the crank pulley only to slide in new guides, he replaces the water pump and thermostats, he says how he reinstalls the fan belt, puts back the covers, etc.:


And this one shows the tranny and engine removal:
 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
There is a lot of good info in those videos but bear in mind that his zip tie method is not the same as the Land Rover method and carries more risk. There is almost zero risk of the cams moving when doing it the official way because none of the cam lobes are under load. I have seen too many stories of the cams moving when doing it the "non approved" way.

For the sake of $20 I would suggest using a new bolt. Once you tighten it, you will appreciate how much stress is placed on the bolt.
 
So, life's been busy and a few things, especially the PS pulley put up a fight, but finally got the tensioners changed and checking things over...
After the ziptie method trying to check the timing marks with the valve covers in place is challenging, but I got a couple pics.

Looks to me like I'm off a tooth. Any thoughts?

lenlo,
Thanks for the pics and advice. As far as I can tell, both oilers are in place. Can you tell me any more about what you saw?

I did find the missing tensioner shoe, so all makes sense now :)

Thanks!
Joel.

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The only place the timing marks will line up is at TDC - Verify your VVT units are in this position - Note the orientation of the highlighted screws. The crankshaft keyway should also be at 6 o'clock

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If keyway is at 6 and VVT units are correctly oriented, it does appear you are off by a tooth. How do the timing marks line up on the opposite bank? How do the lower timing marks line up with the chain guides? At this point, all timing marks should be spot on.

To fix it, I'd recommend removing the valve cover since you are already ~75% of the way there. That would allow you to complete the timing using normal procedures and apply proper pre-load.

If you want to continue with the zip tie method, rotate the engine to a point where there is the most slack in the chain between the two cams - I think it's around 360 degrees from TDC IIRC. Rotate the motor around and find the best place. Place witness marks on the timing chain at both VVT units, crank sprocket and chain guide. Then zip tie the two VVT units into a locked position using the openings in the front of the units with a cross pattern to prevent them from turning - This is the other zip tie method you will find online. Remove the tensioner and guide then you should have enough slack to slip the chain by one tooth. Reset the tensioner and reinstall guide and tensioner. Verify all of your witness marks are still spot on and cut the tie straps. Manually turn the engine over until you find a place at TDC where the timing marks on the chain are close to the reference marks on the guide and VVT units - Verify that they are all off by the same number of chain links on both banks and done.

Still would recommend doing it the full way. After removing the VVT units and seeing all of the gunked up oil inside them, it's only a matter of time before you will need to replace them unless you are ok with the diesel sound. Further, if your chain was so loose that it skipped a tooth, how long before it skips again?
 
Thanks lenlo!

When you say I'm 75% to getting the valve covers off, is that on the supercharged? Seems a long way yet to go.

The plastic shoe on the tensioner broke. I am optimistic that is the cause of the slip and not so much a stretched chain. But who knows?

I cannot see the marks on the right bank at all. I don't see how this is possible without removing the valve cover. But the codes say left bank, so I'm willing to bet that side is OK.

The lower mark on the chain guide looks good.

I had to put the crank pulley back on in order to tighten the crank bolt to the point I could turn the engine, so I couldn't see the keyway, but I believe it was at 6.

However, my upper cam appears to be WAY off from the diagram you posted. How is this even possible?? Don't the cams stay in phase?
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So I began to spin and try to see if the cams would somehow realign. I turned about a quarter turn and it stopped. A lever on the crank pulley tool will raise the suspension a few inches while the crankshaft remains unturned.

I've turned it over by hand many times (a few weeks ago), no troubles.

Any thoughts? I can scope the cylinders to check for valves, but I don't see how anything could have changed there.

What is the possible damage from turning the motor backwards? Is there anything besides shedding the tensioner shoes that can happen? ( I didn't turn it back intentionally, but possibly a bit with confusion with the LHT crank bolt.)

Thanks!
 
Discussion starter · #50 ·
That is a crazy amount of misalignment which means the chain has skipped multiple teeth.

Did you take any photos of the cam positions while you were replacing the guides and tensioners?
 
That is a crazy amount of misalignment which means the chain has skipped multiple teeth.

Did you take any photos of the cam positions while you were replacing the guides and tensioners?
Not with any attempt to align the marks, but the one photo I have when I first opened it looks like a similar offset between the two.

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I drove her home like this, and see no damage on the pistons. Spun it may times to align the timing marks.

I am certain that the chain did not slip after I opened it up... and don't see how it survived if it slipped that much while running?



Thanks!
 
I guestimate that it's roughly 4-6 hours to remove SC and valve covers. Having done it, it really is quite straight forward and is the only way to guarantee you get the timing right. Also, you really want to clean the carbon deposits on your intake valves and replace the VVT units. Listening to the engine run without the diesel sound is super rewarding and makes the entire job well worth it. Once you remove your VVTs and see all of the sludged up oil in the galleries, you will see why. If you have slop in your SC snout, it's also a good time to change the damper along with changing the SC oil. After I finished mine I was shocked at how smooth the idle is on these engines. But I'll admit, it's a little unsettling seeing most of the under hood parts scattered about your garage floor like a jigsaw puzzle.

I can send you my parts list and what I compiled for removal and installation instructions. Below is the high level. If I had to do it again, I would think 16-20 hours of straight work would be about right for the whole thing.

Whereabouts in NC are you?
 
Discussion starter · #53 ·
Further to what lenlo suggested, I would do a leak down test on the affected bank to make sure the valves are not bent/damaged. You dont want to do the job to find compression problems. You might as well do the leak down test on the other bank as well and it will be much simpler to do if the cam alignment is still good.

But there is no point doing the leak down test on the affected bank with the current misalignment so it would mean removing the supercharger, cam covers and timing chain. Then rather than trying to rotate the cams manually to ensure the lobes are away from the cam followers, I would remove both camshafts making sure you keep the bearing caps in the correct orientation/order even though they are numbered. Temporarily refit the injectors and pressurize each cylinder in turn via the spark plug hole - ideally at TDC for each cylinder - but any leakage past the valves would be obvious wherever the pistons are sitting.
 
I guestimate that it's roughly 4-6 hours to remove SC and valve covers. Having done it, it really is quite straight forward and is the only way to guarantee you get the timing right. Also, you really want to clean the carbon deposits on your intake valves and replace the VVT units. Listening to the engine run without the diesel sound is super rewarding and makes the entire job well worth it. Once you remove your VVTs and see all of the sludged up oil in the galleries, you will see why. If you have slop in your SC snout, it's also a good time to change the damper along with changing the SC oil. After I finished mine I was shocked at how smooth the idle is on these engines. But I'll admit, it's a little unsettling seeing most of the under hood parts scattered about your garage floor like a jigsaw puzzle.

I can send you my parts list and what I compiled for removal and installation instructions. Below is the high level. If I had to do it again, I would think 16-20 hours of straight work would be about right for the whole thing.

Whereabouts in NC are you?
Thanks! I'm in Apex (Raleigh area)
 
Been researching the V8 5L chain issues for a few weeks now. I just picked up a 2012 LR4 with 67K miles on the clock and full dealer service history. This is a Japanese import into the UK.
I was planning a full chain replacement, local independent cost is £2400 for that, and I did factor in the cost of this work when buying.
Due to the low mileage I'm now thinking just the tensioner and guide replacement. I'm a competent DIY mechanic, but doing the full chain replacement - it was the injector removal that I was fearing most.

Question is, this official zip tie method, was this ever also recommended for the LR4? Standard V8 5L NA. I can't see why not, but don't see much talk of this on the LR4 forums.

Cheers,
 
my car is 2013 RRS L320 V8 NA, did they not have upgraded tensioners and guides in some late production cars of the factory?
Go to the forum for the 2013 Range Rover Sport and ask.
You posted in the forum for 2003 - 2012 Range Rovers (full size, real Range Rovers).
They may have the same engine but are not built on the same line by the same process, etc.
 
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