RangeRovers.net Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
LEGACY VENDOR
Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
800 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have just completed this tensioner/guide replacement on my 2011 L322 SC with 85000 miles on the clock by following the official JLR short cut method which uses a zip tie to secure the chain and it worked like a charm. I have come across a couple of threads on this forum and the Sport forum but thought I would add a bit more to assist and put peoples minds at rest.

I followed the attached Land Rover Crankshaft Pulley Removal procedure and then the Timing Chain Tensioner - Engine Set procedures with a few of my own shortcuts. There were one or two coolant pipes that I did not disconnect or remove because there was no need and I did not replace the fuel lines as one is supposed to according to LR but basically did it according to the book. I also left the alternator in place.
I was mistakenly sold a crank locking tool kit from the earlier 4.2 SC engine but I decided to modify it slightly and it worked ok. (It was one third of the price). The only down side in using this tool kit is it does not include anything to help with refitting the crank pulley which is a very tight fit.

The bottom line is you need to remove what is necessary to get to the timing chain covers and a bit of common sense in conjunction with the manual will tell you what must be done. Once all the peripherals and the crank pulley are out of the way you remove the upper timing chain covers - left and right - and then the lower (not necessarily in that order). I fitted 2 zip ties to each bank in turn because I had read about breaking zip ties and the nightmare involved to put it right but as long as they are good quality you should be fine with one. Provided you have the crankshaft in the correct position as per the procedure. This removes any tendency for the cams to jump as they will be in a neutral position with no tension on any of the lobes. The guide on the left hand bank was not very easy to remove and refit but a little bit of persuasion helped. I had read that some had to remove the fixed guides as well but not in my case. It may have something to do with how tight you make the zip ties. Mine was not very tight because I could see how the tightness could affect the removal/refitting. The right hand bank guide slipped in and out with no persuasion required - it was very simple. I fitted new tensioners which are supplied with the plunger in a compressed state secured with a pin that is removed once in place and once it was all done I closed up and reassembled. Car is running like a dream now and finally I can put the hammer down and have some fun. I bought it with the engine rattle and have been nursing it pending this job.

I have not listed all the steps because most of them are obvious and in the procedure but here are a couple of cautions.

1. Fuel lines. If you do replace them it makes the job a lot more complicated because you have to remove engine mountings and various other bits and pieces. Land Rover include this due to the dangers of working with any fuel related parts and possible leaks so if you want to be totally sure you should follow what they say. But re-using the pipes it worked for me.
2. Crank locking tool. The early version I used can be modified but not without the help of a good machine shop. You will be better off with the correct one. I actually plan on buying one soon because I have a few of these jobs looming.
3. Upper timing covers. There is one bolt on each that is hidden and can make you a very sad person when the cover breaks as you try to lever it off. I very nearly shed a tear when it happened to me. Thank goodness for my parts car.
4. The crank bolt is very tight and may have a left hand thread or right hand thread. This is easy to determine by checking the numbers on the bolt head. I managed to remove it using my 1/2 drive breaker bar with a 2 meter cheater lever but a 3/4 drive would be much better. Especially to tighten.
5. I did not use the crank locking tool as per the procedure to lock the crank via the ring gear. This is just to temporarily secure the crank to remove the pulley inner torx bolts when shown in the procedure. There are easier ways to lock it.
5. A dedicated puller is needed to remove the pulley and it remains very tight right up to the moment it pops off. There is no way that you can lever if off.
6. The procedure states that the engine must only be rotated in the direction shown in the procedure using the refitted crank bolt as the means to turn the engine. This is a problem due to the left hand thread - it loosens the bolt when you try to turn the engine. So I temporarily fitted the crank pulley with just enough bite to enable the torx bolts on the inner part of the pulley to be used. Its obvious when you see it.
7. I finally refitted the pulley by gently tapping it on by holding a large socket against the inner face of the pulley and carefully hitting it with a hammer until it was definitely on straight and moving gradually and then using the old crank bolt to pull it on. Finally swapping the bolts with the new one to fully tighten. The LR tightness is insane. I could only manage the 200NM followed by around 45 degrees. The procedure requires 270 degrees. Impossible with a 1/2 inch tool. Will be doing it again once my 3/4 drive 24mm deep reach socket arrives.

In conclusion it does seem like a daunting procedure but if followed with care its very much a DIY job. I have done many timing chain guide replacements on the older BMW M62 motor fitted to early L322's and this is a breeze in comparison.

No photos are included in this post because the attached manual sections show everything very clearly.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
311 Posts
Awesome information! Quick question: is there no need to replace the chain? On m62tu by the time the tensioner/guides give out, chains have stretched and need to be replaced because of all the slack. Is it not the case on the newer motors?
 

·
LEGACY VENDOR
Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
800 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I think it depends on the mileage of the car. High mileage obviously means more stretch but I cant say at what mileage this becomes a problem. One thing I did not look at is whether the chains can be removed using this shortcut method. Pity.

The difference between this tensioner problem and the BMW problem is all of the components are still intact on this motor unlike the BMW in which the guides are normally lying in the bottom of the sump. So the slack in the chain is not much but enough to cause a rattle and obviously enough to destroy the engine when they eventually wear enough to cause the chain to jump teeth. On my motor using a pick tool you could lift the chain around 5 to 10mm away from the guide rail. But thats at one point so overall the slack was not much.

High mileage cars may have noisy variable cam components as well as stretched chains so perhaps all the parts in the mechanism should be changed but once again that depends on the motor condition.
 

·
Registered
2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
337 Posts
Great job! I did not realize that the zip-tie method was an official JLR procedure, so that's good to know.
 

·
Registered
2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
49 Posts
For those of us non-DIY type, can we get an accurate price on what the indie shops charge (or should charge) for the job? I hear anywhere from $3000 to $8000! I'm in Los Angeles area.
 

·
Registered
2010-2012 Range Rover Sport
Joined
·
7 Posts
Thanks for the write-up, timing couldn't have been anymore perfect. My engine just through p0016 and p0018 codes.
 

·
Registered
2013-2015 Range Rover Sport
Joined
·
409 Posts
Thanks GT40!

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
1,953 Posts
NOTE if after doing this job you still have the diesel noise you will need to replace the cam phasers.
this requires the whole job to be be done again.
I strongly suggest that the phasers be replaced along with the tensioners the guides the chains.
 

·
LEGACY VENDOR
Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
800 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
While I do agree that replacing the whole lot may be a good idea on a high mileage vehicle, I think its an overkill on others. Noisy cam phasers may be a bit annoying but I think that the number one aim with sorting out the timing chain guide/tensioners is making sure that the engine does not get damaged when the inevitable happens. I have 3 other 5.0L vehicles in my yard with damaged engines due to the chains jumping teeth. 2 of which are destroyed and one may be salvageable. The damage has nothing to do with with cam phasers.

If money and time are no object then definitely do the whole lot. And you might as well do the supercharger snout because it will be getting noisy sooner or later. And the fuel pumps and vacuum pump for the same reason. And a bunch of other components that will be wearing out eventually. The time and cost of doing the tensioner job is a fraction of the cost of doing everything. Having done the job once I am sure I could comfortably do the tensioner/guide swap in 5 or 6 hours provided I had all the parts and tools ready and provided I did not encounter any other snags along the way.
 

·
LEGACY VENDOR
Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
800 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
An example of what can happen when an engine lets go. I bought the car like this so have no idea what happened but I would have loved to have seen the look on the drivers face when it broke. (I doubt its related to the timing chain guide wear but you never know).

Snap_005.jpg

Thats looking down the plug hole with my endoscope. I guess the rest of the piston is lying in the sump or maybe even on the road somewhere. I have not investigated yet to see if the engine has any holes in it but I am sure there must be one or two. Car is a 2010 L322 SC with 40000 miles on the clock from new and is in showroom condition. Goodness knows how the previous owner managed to do that.

Lucky I have a spare engine sitting waiting patiently.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ventogt

·
JACK'S GRANDAD
Joined
·
9,244 Posts
Ghur
Am I correct in thinking no need to R&R the supercharger and valve covers using this procedure? Had a quick looksie through the PDF....
Looks like I have a bad tensioner from me replacing everything not long ago, like a month!!
No codes, live data shows the cam timing within a degree or two side to side, but a noise at startup from cold now. I'm thinking a tensioner losing pressure so the check valve is not working. After a second, literally, it goes away. Only happens on cold startup

Martin
 

·
LEGACY VENDOR
Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
800 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Yes no need to remove them. Everything is accessible after removing the upper and lower timing chain covers.

I am a bit confused by the tensioners. My initial understanding is they have a ratchet mechanism that prevents them returning to the compressed position unless they are first fully extended. I just checked one of my new tensioners against an old one and there seems to be a mechanism that makes it difficult for them to be compressed but it can be overcome if you squeeze hard. I wonder if this indicates a faulty tensioner. Perhaps yours is similar but I cant say whether this is the way they are supposed to operate.

Did you replace the cam sprockets when you did the job?
 

·
Registered
2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
215 Posts
Browsed your thread, but I'll be reading in in great detail tonight. Thanks!

How long would you say it took you to do the job?
 

·
JACK'S GRANDAD
Joined
·
9,244 Posts
I followed the guide instructions when installing the tensioners. Fully extend, put the grenade clip back in, then release the clip once installed. I did have to give it a tap to make it pop out again once installed.
I replaced everything, thinking I was saving future hassle!
The 4 phasers/actuators/sprockets, both chains, tensioners and all guides. Rebuilt the SC snout and filled with new oil. Water pump. Plugs. New injector seals. Think that's about it
The tensioners seemed a little idiotic to me. Having to fully extend before install, then retract, then clip, then install, then extend. I had to give a LR4 I did the same tap when I did that one. The plunger didnt pop out after pulling the clip, but tapping with a drift popped it out against the guide.


Yes no need to remove them. Everything is accessible after removing the upper and lower timing chain covers.

I am a bit confused by the tensioners. My initial understanding is they have a ratchet mechanism that prevents them returning to the compressed position unless they are first fully extended. I just checked one of my new tensioners against an old one and there seems to be a mechanism that makes it difficult for them to be compressed but it can be overcome if you squeeze hard. I wonder if this indicates a faulty tensioner. Perhaps yours is similar but I cant say whether this is the way they are supposed to operate.

Did you replace the cam sprockets when you did the job?
 

·
LEGACY VENDOR
Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
800 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Browsed your thread, but I'll be reading in in great detail tonight. Thanks!

How long would you say it took you to do the job?
I did it over a couple of days because I had to get my crank locking tool modified half way through the job, so it hard to say the number of hours. I would guess at 8 hours work but the first time is always the longest. I spent quite a bit of time working out how to short cut the Land Rover procedures. As always Macgyver stepped in to help.;)
 

·
LEGACY VENDOR
Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
800 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I followed the guide instructions when installing the tensioners. Fully extend, put the grenade clip back in, then release the clip once installed. I did have to give it a tap to make it pop out again once installed.
I replaced everything, thinking I was saving future hassle!
The 4 phasers/actuators/sprockets, both chains, tensioners and all guides. Rebuilt the SC snout and filled with new oil. Water pump. Plugs. New injector seals. Think that's about it
The tensioners seemed a little idiotic to me. Having to fully extend before install, then retract, then clip, then install, then extend. I had to give a LR4 I did the same tap when I did that one. The plunger didnt pop out after pulling the clip, but tapping with a drift popped it out against the guide.
The check valve is visible in the photo when the plunger is removed. I guess its also possible that a tiny piece of dirt could prevent it sealing but there is no way that you can clean it out as its a sealed unit.

283212
 

·
Registered
2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
215 Posts
I had a chance to read your thread with more detail. You need a new crank bolt, correct? Would you have the PN for that bolt? A few other q's below if you don't mind :)

5. I did not use the crank locking tool as per the procedure to lock the crank via the ring gear. This is just to temporarily secure the crank to remove the pulley inner torx bolts when shown in the procedure. There are easier ways to lock it.
So you didn't have to remove the starter? How then did you lock the flexplate or prevent the crank from turning?

7. I finally refitted the pulley by gently tapping it on by holding a large socket against the inner face of the pulley and carefully hitting it with a hammer until it was definitely on straight and moving gradually and then using the old crank bolt to pull it on. Finally swapping the bolts with the new one to fully tighten. The LR tightness is insane. I could only manage the 200NM followed by around 45 degrees. The procedure requires 270 degrees. Impossible with a 1/2 inch tool. Will be doing it again once my 3/4 drive 24mm deep reach socket arrives.
Does that mean you didn't use the long installation tool that looks like just a very long bolt? I'm wondering if there's enough clearance to use that tool without removing the radiator. It's crazy that the complete "tool kit" for the timing job is more expensive than the actual timing kit.

I fitted 2 zip ties to each bank in turn because I had read about breaking zip ties and the nightmare involved to put it right but as long as they are good quality you should be fine with one.
Zip tie brand you used?
 

·
LEGACY VENDOR
Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
800 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I had a chance to read your thread with more detail. You need a new crank bolt, correct? Would you have the PN for that bolt? A few other q's below if you don't mind :)
PN for the bolt is LR011952 but check the numbers stamped on the end to make sure you do get the correct one. It should say 12.9 which is left hand thread. The old one cant be reused.

So you didn't have to remove the starter? How then did you lock the flexplate or prevent the crank from turning?
To be quite honest I dont remember how I locked it. But it wasnt difficult. Those torx bolts that secure the outer part of the pulley are not very tight.

Does that mean you didn't use the long installation tool that looks like just a very long bolt? I'm wondering if there's enough clearance to use that tool without removing the radiator. It's crazy that the complete "tool kit" for the timing job is more expensive than the actual timing kit.
There is a surprising amount of room between the radiator and the pulley. I should have taken photos but got too involved doing the job. I cant say for certain whether the radiator can stay in place when using the correct instalation tool but I am sure it can. I had sufficient space to be able to swing a 4 lb hammer to tap the pulley back on because I did not have the tool.

Zip tie brand you used?
I bought the zip ties online in China - no name brand. Its important that one rotates the crank exactly as it says in the prcedure to ensure that the cams are in the correct position so that none of the lobes are under tension which may allow the cams to suddenly jump once the tensioners are no longer keeping the chain tight. I think that in this position even if a zip tie broke nothing would happen. The nightmare stories most likely happened because the jobs were done with the cam lobes under tension.
 

·
JACK'S GRANDAD
Joined
·
9,244 Posts
I've done a few now, so I may be able to help
Yes you need a new crank bolt
To install the locking tool, the sterter needs to come out, then you get your own nuts and bolts and secure the tool. No you dont get all the stuff needed in a high dollar kit! Starter is super easy to pull though
There is indeed enough room to use the installation tool with the rad in place. To be honest though, I pull the radiator and leave the condenser in place. This allows me to get to the pulley bolt with my impact gun to
a) Remove it,
b) Spin the old bolt in without the crank moving, to turn the engine with a wrench
I've found the better zip ties at Lowes or online.

I had a chance to read your thread with more detail. You need a new crank bolt, correct? Would you have the PN for that bolt? A few other q's below if you don't mind :)



So you didn't have to remove the starter? How then did you lock the flexplate or prevent the crank from turning?



Does that mean you didn't use the long installation tool that looks like just a very long bolt? I'm wondering if there's enough clearance to use that tool without removing the radiator. It's crazy that the complete "tool kit" for the timing job is more expensive than the actual timing kit.



Zip tie brand you used?
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top