Diesel - When my motor goes (running awesome so I don't expect anything soon) I am installing a diesel. Much more economical.

 

I'm interested in diesel as well, but not completely sold yet. I like that they can last longer and get better mileage. I don't like that I know nothing about them


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I'm absolutely going with a Diesel Swap. What year Rover do you have SwedishChef? When I get all my ducks in a row I'm going to do the swap. Hit me with PM and we can swap notes.

 

I have a '95 LWB. I'm interested in torque & HP numbers of the 200/300tdi and the TD5 compared to the 200hp/250tq of my current 4.2


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A fellow on TexasRovers.org is swapping his and blogging about it. Check out their forums.

 

what route did you take? a LS engine?

 

RRC engine swap

The 350 thing involves way too much swapping with things that won't fit well, just digging up the right converter/starter/flywheel is a nightmare, then when you are 'almost there', you find the exhaust won't go under the engine. I've been there/done that, and the guy doing it still has my car (Since 2001) in Billings,Mt. that I had just paid 9k for 3 weeks before. The Vortec 350 is no doubt, World Class best engine, but also have to change all belts and remove EFI to change to OLD Carby setup. There is a fellow in Portland, Oregon that advertises occasionally on Portland Craigslist to do the Isuzu diesel swap for well under 10k. RUMOR is that he has done a few, and does a complete job. Believe he does use 'used' engines in good shape. He can most likely provide some good references on those that have used his services(check Craigslist Auto Parts/Portland). (WHY CAN'T I USE 'ENTER TO MOVE DOWN??????????) Best to either rebuild your 4.2 (option 2) or source a heathy, well treated 4.6(option 1) per one of the Seattle area's best RR repair guys. He is a large proponent of 4.2's, but costwise says you better to do 4.6 conversion(used engine) than a whole rebuild on a 4.2. I won't openly recommend anyone for an engine swap, anyone, after taking a big hit on MY 350 conversion, so please know I'm just telling what I have heard, and leaving any decision to you. Do YOUR HOMEWORK soundly before pulling the trigger, TRUST NO ONE, and be sure you are face to face with who is doing the job.(Why is this site so difficult to correct things on????) DIABOLICAL.

 

Re: RRC engine swap

The 350 thing involves way too much swapping with things that won't fit well, just digging up the right converter/starter/flywheel is a nightmare, then when you are 'almost there', you find the exhaust won't go under the engine. I've been there/done that, and the guy doing it still has my car (Since 2001) in Billings,Mt. that I had just paid 9k for 3 weeks before. The Vortec 350 is no doubt, World Class best engine, but also have to change all belts and remove EFI to change to OLD Carby setup. There is a fellow in Portland, Oregon that advertises occasionally on Portland Craigslist to do the Isuzu diesel swap for well under 10k. RUMOR is that he has done a few, and does a complete job. Believe he does use 'used' engines in good shape. He can most likely provide some good references on those that have used his services(check Craigslist Auto Parts/Portland). (WHY CAN'T I USE 'ENTER TO MOVE DOWN??????????) Best to either rebuild your 4.2 (option 2) or source a heathy, well treated 4.6(option 1) per one of the Seattle area's best RR repair guys. He is a large proponent of 4.2's, but costwise says you better to do 4.6 conversion(used engine) than a whole rebuild on a 4.2. I won't openly recommend anyone for an engine swap, anyone, after taking a big hit on MY 350 conversion, so please know I'm just telling what I have heard, and leaving any decision to you. Do YOUR HOMEWORK soundly before pulling the trigger, TRUST NO ONE, and be sure you are face to face with who is doing the job.(Why is this site so difficult to correct things on????) DIABOLICAL.

Thanks for the info. No doubt it is a lot of hard work.

I happened to have a chat with the gents over at Rover Doctor yesterday. They had a RRC that had the 350 swap in it. They also cautioned against the 4.6 install, saying they like the 4.2 the best because to their experience they seem to have less problems than that 4.6, which is the first time I had ever heard that. I had always heard the 4.6 was the more reliable engine.

I'm tempted to just build a rock-solid 4.2 on a stand over a couple years and just swap it in when I'm done. Seems the easiest route and then I won't have to learn a new motor. The 4.2 has plenty of power for my needs, and I've already put quite a bit of time into learning it.

 

Re: RRC engine swap

These guys having been making parts for Chev conversions etc for a long time. http://www.marks4wd.com/bell-housing-adaptors/land-rover/ls-series-v8-engines.html

I am not sure why you would not look at the TDi International motor if you were looking at a diesel conversion. Isuzu conversions a bit old hat. Landrovers actually came old with a Isuzu diesel here. Good if you do not want to travel too fast.

 

Re: RRC engine swap

These guys having been making parts for Chev conversions etc for a long time. http://www.marks4wd.com/bell-housing-adaptors/land-rover/ls-series-v8-engines.html

I am not sure why you would not look at the TDi International motor if you were looking at a diesel conversion. Isuzu conversions a bit old hat. Landrovers actually came old with a Isuzu diesel here. Good if you do not want to travel too fast.

I have been interested in a 300TDi conversion, but they're supposedly illegal here in California. The Isuzu has a good reputation for reliability, and since this isn't a Porsche, I'm not too worried about speed, as long as it can get out of its own way.

 

Saw the dude in Portland has a complete 300tdi + r380 tranny setup for sale, and it reminded me about this thread.

It seems the more research I do, the more I'm interested in the 300tdi because, well, it's a diesel that has a good reputation and should last awhile. Not sure whether it not it was true that the 300tdi swap was not CA legal, but I'm in CO now and don't really care.

Does anyone have any comments on this setup mentioned above? I'd be swapping from a 4.2 automatic, sounds like a huge chore, but maybe worth it.

 

Compared with your 4.2 V8 the 300TDi will be gutless. It's basically an upgraded 200TDi which is a pretty agricultural thing in the first place and if it's power you want then it is completely the wrong way to go. The 3.9, 4.0 litre (as in the P38 ) and 4.2 are the strongest engines of the bunch with the 4.6 having far more liner problems that the others. I use my cars for towing 3 tonne trailers across Europe and used to use a '93 4.2 LWB LSE and now have a 4.0 litre P38. I wouldn't touch a 4.6 as I prefer to be able to do a 2,000 mile round trip in the car rather than on the back of a recovery truck. Your best bet would be to rebuild your existing, or get hold of another 4.2 engine to rebuild and look at gas flowed heads, different cams and the like. In saying that, for the sort of money you are talking, you could buy a 5.4 litre custom built engine to drop straight in from here http://www.v8developments.co.uk/index.shtml. V8 Developments would also be able to supply any upgraded parts you may want and I suspect that they are going to be a lot cheaper than 'specialists' in the US.

 

I'm not really after performance, I'm after reliability. 'Gas flowed heads' huh? Never heard of it. Will check that out.

V8 Developments... it would cost an arm and a leg to get a long block to CO from England, although I have a guy out there who does shipping. I love my 4.2, the power is great, it sounds great and it's matched well with the autobox. The only thing I'm looking for is reliability.

 

Getting a bit off topic but I think the car culture here is very different to over there. Here people are more into restoring older cars and we have many specialist suppliers who will remanufacture parts that are no longer available. Then there are the specialist engine builders and similar. But the owners of the cars will do the assembly themselves. Then they can say that they did it. My impression of over there is that people want a car so pay somebody to do the work for them. I mean, even in this thread there's been people talking about spending $10k to have a different engine fitted into a $5k car. Why? Buy the engine for £1k and fit it yourself. The problem is that the customer may know what he wants so pays someone to do it for him but doesn't know enough about it to recognise a good job from a bad one. Reconditioning an engine isn't difficult and is very rewarding the first time it fires up. But you do need to have know a good machine shop that can regrind the crank, rebore the block, skim the heads, etc. There also seems to be a lot of faith placed in aftermarket bits too. We've got a box full of MSD distributors and ignition amplifiers that we've taken off cars and replaced with remanufactured originals. They work just as well, and in at least one case, better but to someone Stateside a brand new flashy looking MSD must be better than a plain looking original even when it isn't

It no different in France to be honest. We have been unable to find anyone capable of doing good quality body welding or paintwork. Normally we get the work done in the UK before the cars go to France but we've had a couple that have got there before we've found just how much needs to be done. An E Type we imported last year needed new floors and sills (bought in California but turned out to be a flood damaged New York car) fitting, we ended up having to fly our bodywork man from UK to the south of France and hire a welding set so he could do the work there. The same goes for body preparation and paintwork. We've got two cars that are naked shells in France that needed painting. It was cheaper to fly our painter down there for two weeks than bring the cars back to the UK to be painted. He's there at the moment and I'm driving the 950 miles there on Saturday (in my p38) with the paint as it's 4 times the price in France. Since being there he's been approached by a high class car dealer from Monaco who has seen the job he's doing and offered him as much work as he can handle! Maybe there will be someone capable of decent work in France shortly.

 

Getting a bit off topic but I think the car culture here is very different to over there. Here people are more into restoring older cars and we have many specialist suppliers who will remanufacture parts that are no longer available.

Now THAT is cool.

Then there are the specialist engine builders and similar. But the owners of the cars will do the assembly themselves. Then they can say that they did it. My impression of over there is that people want a car so pay somebody to do the work for them. I mean, even in this thread there's been people talking about spending $10k to have a different engine fitted into a $5k car. Why? Buy the engine for £1k and fit it yourself.

I never said I wasn't going to do it myself ;-)

The problem is that the customer may know what he wants so pays someone to do it for him but doesn't know enough about it to recognise a good job from a bad one.

And that's exactly why I would try to do it myself if I could.

Reconditioning an engine isn't difficult and is very rewarding the first time it fires up. But you do need to have know a good machine shop that can regrind the crank, rebore the block, skim the heads, etc.

Yep. Not easy to find the right people. I'm very much looking forward to the satisfaction of rebuilding my own engine. As long as it works ;-)

There also seems to be a lot of faith placed in aftermarket bits too. We've got a box full of MSD distributors and ignition amplifiers that we've taken off cars and replaced with remanufactured originals. They work just as well, and in at least one case, better but to someone Stateside a brand new flashy looking MSD must be better than a plain looking original even when it isn't

YES. I find that very true of Americans. We assume that, because it's an independent supplier/manufacturer, that they can do ONE thing better than the big auto manufacturers. I get the logic, but I also get that it's not always true.

It no different in France to be honest. We have been unable to find anyone capable of doing good quality body welding or paintwork. Normally we get the work done in the UK before the cars go to France but we've had a couple that have got there before we've found just how much needs to be done. An E Type we imported last year needed new floors and sills (bought in California but turned out to be a flood damaged New York car) fitting, we ended up having to fly our bodywork man from UK to the south of France and hire a welding set so he could do the work there. The same goes for body preparation and paintwork. We've got two cars that are naked shells in France that needed painting. It was cheaper to fly our painter down there for two weeks than bring the cars back to the UK to be painted. He's there at the moment and I'm driving the 950 miles there on Saturday (in my p38) with the paint as it's 4 times the price in France. Since being there he's been approached by a high class car dealer from Monaco who has seen the job he's doing and offered him as much work as he can handle! Maybe there will be someone capable of decent work in France shortly.

Yeah sometimes services in France can be like getting service in New Zealand or something, especially in the south. England seems to have a wealth of specialists who are very skilled in their trade. I've got a buddy in Southampton who does some incredible restoration work. Really world-class. We have them here in the states, too, but it seems harder because there's a lot more to choose from, and most are usually rubbish. Enjoy the beautiful drive, though, once you get past Paris anyway ;-)

Not going all the way down to the Cevenne are you? It's one of my favorite places on the planet.

 

I am also contemplating a swap as well. I certainly don't think the 3.9-4.2-4.6 is the answer. The design was never meant to be emissions controlled. Diesels are great but fuel is more expensive and power is low compared to even the 4.2. Search for Gm gen 4 conversion on Defender Source and read that thread. As much as I hate Chevy the LS engine with the 4L60 transmission looks really good. The millage may not be nearly as good as the diesel but with 300 horses and modern FI, it is certainly going to be better than the 4.2, with no need to run premium.
Engine/trans combos are really cheap too.
Don't get me wrong- a TDi would be great but and it's almost a bolt in but it is a far cry from the power you are used to with your current set up.
Just my .02
Chris

 

I'm actually putting a 300Tdi in my 93 LWB at this very moment.

Another very interesting option is the GM Gen4 LS engine and 6 speed transmission that Nicholas Markiw in San Diego is doing.
These are his pics from D90 source. I think the GM Gen 4 could be a game changer for Defenders, RRClassics, and Disco1's.

 

I'm very interested still in the 300Tdi as well. Seems like probably the most reliable 'straight' swap available. I've got some guys in the UK that could get ahold of a nice one for me, too.

A game changer indeed. Read the entire thread and it looks very promising. If this came out as a kit I'd be all over it. Geez 500hp and a 6-speed? Yes please. TAKE MY MONEY ;-)

 

Sounds really interesting, a modern V8 on our RRC could be a game changer indeed...

 

I haven't heard anyone mention the TD5... I'm assuming the dramatic electronic difference from the 300TDi is too crazy to stuff into a Classic?

From what I've read the TD5 is the most reliable LR engine ever made, and sounds like it's more refined and powerful than the 200/300TDi.

I'm not planning to do anything until my 4.2 V8 gives up the ghost. I actually love the 4.2 - it's power (even with my terrible compression) is good enough for me. The curve is very smooth. I expect I'm realistically getting somewhere between 120-150hp out of it.

If the Defender guys figure out the LS swap, I'll definitely be going for that if they order a kit and the whole job is under $10k, but I'm not expecting that to happen anytime soon. I wish someone would put together a kit for the Chevy 350 as well, but the reality sounds like the only options are 3.9, 4.2, 4.6, 200TDi or 300TDi right now, and the diesels are the most reliable of the lot apparently, which is my main factor.

All things being equal, I wouldn't mind stuffing a new Subaru 2.0t or EJ22 in there either. But it's not a VW Bus! My old '95 Legacy had a 2.2na (UK model), and the 2.2's here in the States are closed deck and can handle like 380 hp without blinking. They go for peanuts and are easy to work on.

I keep having this discussion with my wife... "You're sinking so much money into that piece of crap!" "Would you rather me spend $40k on a new car, like you?" "Shutup."

Every time I drive my RRC I fall deeper in love. These things have so much character, are so unique, and tick all my boxes (except reliability). I love how it rides, how it sounds, how it looks. Man, you're going to have to pry this thing from my cold, dead fingers.

 

Depending on why you're looking at an engine swap, the future might actually be in transmission swaps. ZF and others are starting to make hybrid transmissions with an electric motor built into them. I don't know how far the development will go, but it would be pretty sweet to be able to get better gas mileage *and* more low-end torque.

Personally though, I like the sound of the pushrod V8. I would be sad to go to anything that doesn't have that nice rumble.

 

Personally though, I like the sound of the pushrod V8. I would be sad to go to anything that doesn't have that nice rumble.

Exactly. The Range Rover Classic and the V8 are made for each other. A diesel just wouldn't fit the character of the vehicle. Save those for Defenders and Discos.

 

I love that idea, it's next on my list.... well it's been for while since I saw that Series III electric vs RRC a while back.
Since my Series III still runs OK, I may get another one with a dead engine and do it, but I *know* I want to do this one day, soon if possible

 

I wouldn't mind popping a Tesla Model X drivetrain in there...

 

i was not wanting to comment on this thread due to number of posts.... butttttt

i just saw this on ebay---

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Land-Rover-...0685833?forcerrptr=true&hash=item258eddba89&item=161310685833&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

the guy who builds these is asking very high retail pricing for his diesel builds. But I went to the sellers blog, and he sells 200 and 300 TDIs. Might be an option for you, if you choose to go down this route.

 

Yeah I've seen his conversions before... he's done so many by now he MUST know what he's doing!

 

OK - I'll some pipe dreaming....What about a 4.3 V6 (genI/II) instead of a v8? About the same HP and torque output as the 3.5/3.9 BOP engines, reliable history and relatively economical, even in a heavy truck. Novak adapters makes a bell housing adapter for the 4.3 to connect to an NV3550, and Diesel Conversions in Kallispel MT has an adapter for the NV3550 to the LT230. You could use the GM injection if you wanted, or go with a carb. Room for cooling and power take off items isn't as big a deal as it is on the V8's. You might be looking at the an HEI distributor knocking on the firewall, but you could downsize to a smaller aftermarket distributor. I guess it would still be monstrously expensive, but gives you a lower 1st and 2nd gear along with improved simplicity and longevity.

 

Take a look at this 5.0L conversion with 320 HP/340 TQ

http://store.toddcosuspensions.com/laroen.html

 

He also has headers and ignition modules:

http://store.toddcosuspensions.com/noname12.html