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Question about on SAND performance

22K views 57 replies 20 participants last post by  Zero68  
#1 ·
We used a JEEP Cherokee TrailHawk to go to the beach (Gilgo Beach, LI, NY) for surfing. Now we no longer have that fabulous and capable Trailhawk to get into the sand.

Anyone experienced with driving the 2015 RRS with 21 inches wheels into the sand? Would you think I would get stuck at all?

All sorts of 4x4 and 4WD vehicles drive to this surfing beach, but I have never seen a Range Rover Sport in there, and now I do not own a JEEP anymore and I am a bit afraid of trying and getting stuck, and worse, WITH A RANGE ROVER.

Please inputs would be very welcome.
Thnak you
Cheers
LCL
 
#3 ·
Your tires and rims are a liability on soft sand, since you normally need to air down quite a bit to avoid getting stuck over such soft terrain, particularly when accelerating from a standstill. With 21" rims and low profile "rubber band" tires that were really designed for on-road use, there is only so much air you can take out before you risk popping a bead. With chunkier tires aired down to 15-18 PSI, TR Sand mode engaged and a little common sense, these cars have no issues driving even in the softest sand. Your setup makes it a bit more challenging, but a lot depends on the type of sand you will be driving on.
 
#4 ·
Please don't attempt it with your stock 21's.... I would hate to see the youtube videos that will inevitably be taken by the folks who think its hilarious anytime a RR gets stuck. In addition, it would not make you very popular on this site.

If you intend to routinely go out on the sand, first go on ebay and buy a set of 19" rims and get some good chunky rubber to wrap around them.
 
#6 ·
Havent you guys watched the video from the "only stock car to ever cross the biggest sand desert in the world" promo clip? :D When I did the factory tour and LR driving experiance one of the guys who was there told us about how they did it, and it was actually on the stock 20"s. The 21"s wear 295 tires are so wide thet if you are gentle with the throttle there is no way you will get stuck on a beach where the sand is much more dense than in a desert. With all that said, after a safari in Abu Dhabi when the driver was dropping us off there was a RRS in front of the hotel so I asked him - Could we have done that in this? - IN THIS?! NOO - BIG PROBLEM. :D
 
#9 ·
I'm not questioning the capability of the RRS. Heck, I bought one b/c of its abilities. However, tires make a huge difference. The stock 21s were chosen for a blended mix of quietness, economy, road-handling, durability, and general on-road traction.

I would be very cautious driving on loose, dry sand with the stock 21s. At the very least, on the first trip go with a buddy who has another 4x4 so if things get tough he can tug you out.
 
#14 ·
An excellent driver can make up for a world of mechanical limitations. Many folks think that all wheel drive means they can go anywhere and do anything. Just look at what you find in the ditches when the roads are icy. I;ve taken a 79 Monza with straight cut highway tyres into some of the most god forsaken forests around here with no issues. I;ve watched fully kitted Jeeps and Toys stuck in the same places. The number of "off roaders" I have towed out of clay, off rocks and out of rivers is countless. I;ve even pulled state patrolmen out of snow banks... twice... with a 66 Imperial LeBaron.

People can rave about the abilities of their rigs, the fantastic gizmos and controls their rig has and how much they paid. However it is all useless when you have an uneducated person behind the wheel with little or no experience. I;ve seen members here absolutely ruin their rigs and end up in the shop with very expensive repairs because of it. I;ve also seen members here take a crippled new purchase with poor tyres and inop traction control and out drive circles around other folks. Don't put all your eggs in the basket of technology and mechanics. If you don;t know what you are doing dip a toe and take it easy or things can get very expensive... very quickly.
 
#15 ·
Am i missing something here? It's not like the OP said his RRS is his first off-road capable vehicle and he'd love to take it to this secluded sandy beach where no one ever goes because it's inaccessible by 4 wheeled vehicles.

He's asking about taking the RRS on a sandy tract that he's traveled previously in a similarly capable vehicle. I guess i just don't see what the big deal is.
 
#16 · (Edited)
You are missing the fact that a Range Rover - or any 4x4 - fitted with 21 or 22" wheels and racing slicks in lieu of all-terrains with some meat on them is still a very capable off-roader on paper, but is fitted with tires and wheels that are not designed to cope well in many off-road conditions, such as soft sand, rocks, mud, etc. It's as if you sent Lionel Messi to play competitive soccer in a pair of ballet shoes instead of cleats. Still a great player, but... Why does he slide and fall so much? Anyway, like we all said it depends on the type of sand (if it's like the one in Nantucket above he may get stuck, but perhaps he is not dealing with such soft and deep sand in Long Island) and the experience and common sense of the driver. I just hate reading any more of those "I just rescued another clueless city slicker with 22" rims in a $100K Range Rover" disparaging stories on a Bronco forum. ;-)

PS: There was a hilarious video of Jimmy Fallon getting stuck in a NJ beach with his fancy Land Rover and telling the story on The Tonight Show a few months back, but I'll be darn if I can find the link to that video anymore.
 
#17 ·
I hear ya, I was that guy with my first 4WD. i drove my Discovery II straight from picking it up at the dealer to an off road spot my buddy took me to. I was following him around in about 2' of muddy water. I got a little outside of his tire tracks and slid into a very deep rut. Water was over the front of the hood and seeping in the vents cut into the door sills. (made to drain water) After losing the black recovery strap in the muddy water for several minutes, I ended up with about 1.5' of muddy water in the front passenger foot well. Almost got to the CD changer under the seat. I got home and extracted 7 gallons of water out of the carpets/padding. I learned my lesson through muddy baptism. After that, i stuck to the sandy bits of off road. :)

The jeep trailhawk's stock All-Terain tires are only .5" smaller in overall diameter than the RRS 21" tires. And smooth tires are better in sand than aggressive treaded tires. Just like how it's easier to walk barefoot on sand than it is with cleats, or shoes for that matter. Your smooth feet compress the sand while the cleats cut thought it and sink. And from a physics stand point, the larger the diameter tire, the easier it will roll over anything, including sand. There is a fairly new concept in MTN bikes called 29ers. They're equipped with 29" tires instead of 26" tires. And they roll over everything and anything more easily than the 26" tires. The larger the diameter, the larger the surface area is in contact with the driving surface.


Here is a excerpt about tire selection from a guy explaining how to drive on sand.

Because, contrary to what seems logical, what you're really trying to do is float on the sand Aggressive tire patterns (the kind of tires that come on every 4WD yuppiemobile ever made) and high tire pressures make the tire "bite" into the sand and make you violate the first axiom lose your momentum. Here's the hierarchy of tire tread patterns from best to worse:
  1. Racing slicks with no tread
  2. Worn-out (bald) street tires of any size and description
  3. Street tires with a simple tread pattern
  4. All-season tread patterns
  5. Mud and snow tread patterns
OP is not talking about driving on sand dunes. It's a sand road from the highway to the beach. Check out the beach on Google maps, you can see clear tire tracks in the road from satellite pictures; it appears to be a frequently traveled road. He should be fine, we don't need to scare him away from hitting his favorite surf spot. :)
 
#21 ·
Thanks guys for all the input...
DID IT, light to moderate sand ONLY...

GOT BADLY STUCK and a Grand Cherokee came to rescue me!

I do not think I can do it with a RRS, as only rear wheel had traction, nothing on the front wheels and rear wheels simply buried into the sand and there was no way I could move.
Lowered the tires to about 25 PSI and did not help!

I guess I need to buy a second hand used jeep to continue my surfing life out in the sand or anyone with any ideas to avoid having to buy a old and maybe problematic car!
Different set of tires and wheels maybe?


Are our RRS a 4WD at all? I would like some inputs with technical information on how it works on sand mode.

Appreciated it
LCL
 
#24 · (Edited)
Don't say we didn't warn you - at least some of us did... My recommendations still stand. Chunkier tires (not necessarily a more aggressive tread, but meatier and with more sidewall so that you can air down to under 20 PSI before entering the beach, after getting stuck it's normally too late...), fitted over smaller, 19 or 20" rims since you can't fit 18" anymore courtesy of your ginormous performance brakes. Sand mode engaged and my only additional suggestion would be to turn DSC off, so the electronics don't get in the way and cut power to your wheels when you get momentum and start rolling.

Yes, for the time being all Land Rovers sold in North America are still 4 wheel drive. :lol:
 
#25 ·
Great advice
Will try that this weekend and see if get stuck again!!!

Now, anyone would recommend any 10 or 20 inch wheels and tires for the 2015 RRS I own?

I don't want to kill the ability and looks of the car for ON ROAD long distance driving though!

I really appreciate any input on that, as I called in TIRERACK and they do not have anything for the 2015 RRS.

Please advise,
Thanks
LCL
 
#26 ·
10" wheels are going to take a lot of custom work and would look absolutely ridiculous. :lol:

On serious note you are going to have to give up one or the other if you want to do things right. You can purchase decent tyres that allow for sand driving or you can stick with what you have for on road looks and take your chances in the sand. Somewhere in the middle is what you want but you will indeed sacrifice one or the other to some degree. How much of the sacrifice will you even notice? Most likely very little to none.
 
#29 ·
Thanks for the long and interesting write up.

I agree that BUYING A SECOND CAR (A jeep most likely) is not really the way to go...can you imagine! I sold my Trailhawk for a RRS and can no longer go to that exact location you pointed out in the map in your post! not fun.

I have to say I have never dropped a PSI on any of the tires! AND WENT SMOOTHLY INTO heavy sand, BUT i HAD A 4LOW and dif.lock on. Now, I have to say, I do not have experience in driving in sand, except that I did with my Trailhawk and it was absolutely stress free.

If you dont mind, what are the basics on the RRS or any vehicle for sand driving?

What tire pressure should I lower to before going into the sand?
Thank you
Appreciated it.

LCL
 
#30 ·
Did you use the low range and diff locker on the Jeep? Do you have HSE or V8SC? If i recall correctly, the HSE does not have a 4 low option but the V8SC does.

Airing down 275-45-21s won't help you much. The airing down of the tire is to increase the length & slightly, the width of the tire's foot print. With a 45 aspect ratio tire (sidewall height equals 45% of the tire width) you won't gain much length and almost no width because the side walls are quite stiff due to the rim being lower to the ground. There is something to gain, but it's not much. Now if you have a 75 aspect ratio tire, you could more than double the length of the tire foot print by dropping to 10-15 psi from 35ps. Here is a illustration.

Image



If you want to air down with those low profiles, to find a sand pressure to start with, air your tire to normal street driving pressure. Then set a brick approximately 1/2" away from the side wall where the tire contacts the ground. Let the air out until the sidewall touches the brick. Then test the tire pressure. That pressure will be about what you'll use should you want to air them down for sand driving. I'm not sure how much foot print you'll gain, but my guess is that it won't be more than 5-10%. But i suppose it all helps. Always air up immediately upon returning to the pavement.

Almost all people get stuck when turning, starting or stopping on the sand. The other common time they get stuck is when their vehicle comes to a stop but they continue to try and accelerate. When your vehicle stops in sand, stop trying to accelerate. You can almost always back out if you haven't dug yourself into a hole by trying to power out of the stoppage.

A lot of people say just keep your speed up and you'll be fine. Even the quote below talks bout "planing" on the sand. But too much speed can start to push your front tires through the sand rather than allowing them to roll over the sand. When the tires are pushed, sand builds up in front of them making it more difficult for them to roll over and may eventually cause you to get stuck. There is a happy medium when it comes to speed, but many factors determine what that happy medium is. Type of sand, hills or flat, 4 or 2 wheel drive, tire pressure, tire tread pattern, etc... When you experience this, it will feel like you're slowing down even though you're trying to accelerate more. Sometimes, just easing off of the throttle a little but will give the front tires time to roll over rather than push through. You'll develop a feel for it with more experience.

I quoted some tips from a website that describes more of the places you'll be traveling.

When traveling on sand, you should endeavor to follow in the tire tracks of the vehicle in front as they have already compressed the sand to form a firmer surface than un-traversed ground. Never drive on vegetation as this will destroy it and lead to erosion and environmental damage.

You should avoid rapid changes in speed when accelerating or braking. Braking on sand will cause a mound to build up in front of all wheels and possibly prevent your vehicle from taking off. Rapid acceleration simply digs the wheels in and can actually lead to slower take-off speeds.


Take-off should be performed as smoothly as possible with gear changes done at fairly high revs. Sand driving requires plenty of engine power to get your vehicle "planing" on the sand. It is advisable to use low range as this multiplies the amount of engine torque available and will provide that extra gear if you encounter a particularly soft patch of sand. Check that your tires are pointing straight ahead when taking off to reduce the takeoff effort required.


When stopping on sand, depress the clutch and allow the vehicle to coast to a stop. This will minimize any sand build-up in front of the wheels. If the terrain permits, coast to a stop, rather than braking, with the vehicle pointing downhill as this will aid take-off. Avoid the soft sand at the base of most dunes and gullies when stopping.
When turning, make the turn as wide as possible to reduce the chance of bogging. Your front wheels act more like a rudder in sand and turning too sharp has a similar effect to applying the brakes.


Steep sand dunes can be traversed only straight up or down. If you drive even on a slight angle, the weight transfer is to the downhill side wheels. If the vehicle starts to slip, the downhill wheels tend to dig in and make the angle of the dune even worse, leading to a potential rollover.


If you are traveling straight down a steep dune and the back end starts to slip sideways, it is best to accelerate slightly to try and straighten the vehicle. Never use the brake, as this will cause weight transfer to the front wheels and can increase the back end movement.


If traveling up a dune and you do not get to the top, reverse down the dune in gear, NEVER coast down the dune and NEVER attempt a U turn.


When you return home after a beach trip, it is important to hose down your vehicle to remove all traces of sand and salt. Pay special attention to areas like the mudguards where sand is sprayed around and tends to get trapped. Thoroughly hose underneath your vehicle as well, as there are many nooks and crannies where sand con also get trapped.
 
#34 ·
Thanks a lot guys,
it is all making more sense to me now.

My RRS is a 2015 21' wheels with 275/45/21 tires, 6 cilynder 3.0 SC.
I did use SAND mode, but I did not turn off the DSC (traction control).
Driving in or out was easy...the problem is that you drive over the existing tracks, but when you need to turn around! that is the problem, you are no longer over the tracks and I GOT STUCK!

I will try again this Saturday and see what happens, I will follow your posts' instructions and will POST after that.

I just hope I will succeed, as I do not want once again be LAUGHED AT and have to ask the Jeep guy to rescue me again!

Spoken to Land Rover today, they told me pretty much the same as you all are saying and they assured me I would not get stuck in those conditions (knowing where I am going) GILGO BEACH, NY LONG ISLAND! so lets see what happens...I will make sure I am there at around 8 am, so there will not be too many spectators!

CHeers and thank you all.
LCL
 
#35 ·
Driving in or out was easy...the problem is that you drive over the existing tracks, but when you need to turn around! that is the problem, you are no longer over the tracks and I GOT STUCK!

I will try again this Saturday and see what happens, I will follow your posts' instructions and will POST after that.
Perhaps some practice is all that's in order. I'm not sure what happened when you got stuck, but if you turn too sharply, you'll have issues with most vehicles not purpose-built for sand. It's probably a good idea, if you plan on doing this often, to pair up with someone else more experienced, particularly with recovery and who is using an LR vehicle, and figure it out. It's like learning to drive in snow or in any other inclement conditions: screw up until you stop doing so.

It's been a while, but IIRC, Gilgo Beach sand is pretty firm and shouldn't be a problem. Maybe I'm thinking of another beach, but the sand should be nearly the same unless it's shipped in due to erosion.