Common issue among every car maker out there. Something fails and you have a battery drain. You need to take the time to find the circuit or circuits that are draining, find the issue and repair it. You can trip your door latch to make the systems think the door is closed and the BCM goes to sleep. Then you can take a multimeter to your glove box fuse box and test each fuse to find the draw or draws. make notes. Open the hood, disconnect the hood open switch and when the BCM goes to sleep, test every fuse in the underhood fuse box. Most circuits will read zero or very small pull. Those circuits will be for radio memory etc. Any fuse that shows a larger draw is suspect.

Your other option is find an indie in whatever part of Seattle you are in and log a huge labour bill for circuit testing.

 

They've already done old school circuit testing (i.e., shutdown, wait and measure) 2 to 3 times already, each time taking 4 to 6 weeks (and a full shutdown - the one that occurs hours later after the engine is fully off, not the soft 2 minute shutdown). The culprit the first time was the hood fuse box (drawing power on 10 different circuits), a door module the second time and the heater/blower the third time. The last time took 6 weeks because that circuit was one of the last on the list. I can't stand the thought of driving those crappy Discovery Sport loaners for another 6 weeks LOL!

I'm starting to think it's NOT one particular circuit behind these drains anymore because there's a different culprit each time - unless there's a particular circuit or component that falsely tells OR corrupts other circuits forcing them to power on?? Feels like when I take it in again a different circuit/module will be the culprit this time, thus possibly giving us a false positive.


P.S. - Extended warranty is expiring in a couple of months, so I'm hoping this gets figured out soon.

 

Listen to what RRToadHall stated. He is 100% spot on regarding how you need to trouble shoot your problem.

If you do not do the work yourself insist that the dealership does it and talk to the actual mechanic that is going to or did it (assuming it is under warranty). (Regarding warranty - if it ever had it or you paid for anything regarding this issue I would say the dealership should see it to the conclusion at no expense to you.)

For a story - my neighbor has a 2001 Jag XJ8 - he has the same issues you have. He has brought it in countless times to an independent shop for extended warranty work and they have done the same thing you describe. For the last two years I have been telling him he has to do exactly what RRToadHall suggests. He doesn't listen. Car keeps dying on him. At one point he jumped it and blew the engine computer - trip to the dealership and they put in a new one under his extended warranty as it was a dealer item only. Same problem. He was told he has to drive the car at least every three days a good distance. No one has bothered to do a real drain trouble shooting. Now when he complains I just laugh at him. I will no longer let him borrow my charger. I am sure the shop laughs at him as they keep getting to bill the extended warranty company for a tow, battery charge and/or swap.

Some circuit in the system on your Rover is not shutting down correctly due to a fault, something is improperly grounding out or similar - the only way to find this is to measure voltage and current of every system until the fault is found. At this point I would not rely on the factory computer the dealership is using - it has failed you how many times? Make them pull out a VOM and do it old school - the fault is there waiting to be found.

Your problem is not common or you would find a solution searching the internet as others would have the same issue or Range Rover would have been able to fix it because the lot would be full of RR just like yours awaiting repairs. They would assign a team of engineers to figure out the problem, find the solution and issue a TSB. As it is not common - something specific is wrong - they just need to find it. They have taken your money - make them earn it.

Report back so I can tell my neighbor.

 

If it is under warranty let the dealer handle it.

 

I feel your pain. I will tell you a story to help flush out the difficulty in trouble shooting and why sometimes it doesn't work just swapping parts.

Recently I had to trouble shoot an "anti-skid" warning on my Volvo. As the Volvo was out of state, it was brought to an area dealer. They plugged it into their computer and said it was one of two modules - they could not tell which one because the way the circuit was wired either would throw the code. It was either the clock spring or DEM. So it was hit or miss. Based on their experience they stated most of the time, based on my vehicle and mileage it was a failing clock spring. They were honest and upfront. Unwilling to spend the $600 or so with an out of state dealer I could never work with again I didn't have the repairs done. When it got home and back under my control I did my own testing and thinking. I figured the best approach is to try the clock spring replacement. I bought a used one for $50 from a local wrecker and replaced it. During the process I found out the cause of the failure - someone spilled a Smoothie and it dripped all over and down the back of the steering wheel. The clock spring was caked with gunk and it appeared that indeed it was compromised. I cleaned everything up and noticed some corrosion on a connector on the male side of the clock spring and on the female side of the steering wheel module, one not mentioned by the dealer as a possible cause of the Volvo's issues. The clock spring plugs into the steering wheel module, from there signals go various places and ultimately to the DEM. I put everything back together and had no issues for 6 months. "Anti-skid" warning came back and another shop I use reported back with the same diagnosis as the original dealer.

Unwilling to accept the diagnosis as I understood how everything works and knew my clock-spring was fine and I did not think it was the DEM because the code was intermittent I pondered the issue for a month. After looking at the photos of the various modules I took while doing the repair, it dawned on me that when I did the original work the steering wheel module female side had corrosion which I cleaned as best I could. If that connection was still dirty it could cause an intermittent fault code. The module itself was working fine and would report back as working, but the connection was not. Even though the steering module would not throw a fault code as it was working fine, it would not accept the inputs of the clock-spring - and the computer would say the clock-spring or DEM was bad. What was bad was the female connector on the steering wheel module (something that would not throw a code) - I reasoned this bad connection would stop the flow of information upstream. So I ordered a used steering module off Ebay for $22 delivered and had it installed. For $22 and an hour of easy work it was worth testing my theory. Problem solved.

The point of my story is maybe you have a bad connection somewhere and this connection is the cause of your issues. In your case as they replaced the under the hood fuse box - I would look at the wiring harness. It will not throw a code or appear to drain power on any test and upon visible inspection look just fine - but it is the path all signals flow through. Right now they are just throwing parts at the car, without looking at the harness connections. The Dealer has to step back, look at the wiring diagram and figure out which part of the wiring harness - specifically which harness junction - could be at issue.

When they changed the hood fuse box - what did they see? Was there liquid intrusion? Did they only change one side of a two sided problem?

Just something to think about. Keep pushing your warranty claims and take a long road trip on their loaner Discovery.

 

Okay, before I have it towed to the dealership again, what can I look for or tinker with to quickly test the grounding or bad wiring theory? The battery voltage is now down to 2.66 (was 7.89 yesterday), by the way.

 

To drain the battery that fast - there has to be a pretty serious leak to ground somewhere. I had a similar issue a while ago on a different car - I did the fuse test on each circuit and couldn’t find anything.

Is the alternator warm to the touch ? My issue was bad alternator diodes causing the battery to drain to ground when the power was off. After leaving car overnight - alternator was warm to touch. You said alternator was replaced . Why ? Was it not putting out sufficient voltage at idle ? My reman denso alternator also had bad diodes after less than a year. Worth checking ...

 

You said alternator was replaced . Why ? Was it not putting out sufficient voltage at idle ?

The alternator was replaced because I kept getting the Charging System Fault error. This error occurred popped up after the hood fuse box replacement and of course I got a dead battery again. They were actually stumped on why the error was coming up and they brought in a tech from another dealership and he recommended the alternator be replaced.

...you probably need an old school auto electric guy to trouble shoot it - not one of the younger dealer tech guys ....

Exactly what I was thinking, not sure if they'll honor that request though

First thing to do is disconnect your battery, negative first, and charge the battery until it is full.

What do you have in the form of tools? Do you have any kind of electrical tester or VOM?

Well I have some equipment for when I get back into tinkering with solar and 18650 li-on batteries stuff; I have a 150W 12A DC multi-charger which can charge and discharge a sealed lead acid battery, a AC to DC 12V 33A power supply (can adjust output from 10.4 to 15.2 volts), DC 6.5-100V 0-100A LCD display digital current voltage power energy meter (multimeter/ammeter/voltmeter) with 100A current shunt (can't remember why I got this, LOL), a plain ol' Radio Shack AC & DC current multimeter and a cheapo Amazon clamp style AC & DC current multimeter. Any of these helpful?

 

Faulty ignition switch could also be another cause that keeps power alive or shorting to ground - when off. But this could be anywhere in the wiring loom - you probably need an old school auto electric guy to trouble shoot it - not one of the younger dealer tech guys ....

 

First thing to do is disconnect your battery, negative first, and charge the battery until it is full.

What do you have in the form of tools? Do you have any kind of electrical tester or VOM?

 

Watch this guy's video as a starting point. Will show you what tools you need and how to go about looking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdIKNnwEjIs

 

You have the diagnosis tools required and sound like you have the skill set and knowledge to use them.

Watch the YouTube video I linked above and it explains the tools, process and procedure better than writing would (at least my writing).

It appears no one has looked at the harness/wiring (in between) so far and has just been swapping out parts (the ends).

 

Heh, I actually don't have the skill set, but I am picking up a ton of info so far. The battery is likely dead dead now so I don't think the parasitic draw test would yield anything (there's probably no current). I'll try charging it with the hobby charger and then doing the parasitic draw test. If unsuccessful I have no choice but have it towed to the dealership again and burn through the rest of the warranty hoping they find a true fix. If the warranty runs out without a true fix I'll just do what other RR owners have done; install an AGM battery and then a secondary battery in the boot/trunk/cargo area to help lessen the chances of the car not starting.

Thanks everyone for your help. Much appreciated!

 

what size battery changer are you using? I suggest to use a 6 amp charger and charge the battery for 5 hours.
disconnect it from the charging system first.

Usually an alternator can be damaged by using a jump starting charge box,
this will spike the diodes ,
and then the alternator can kill the battery either from an internal short or under charging the battery.
at 1500 RPM after 2 mins you should see a charge of 14.4 .
If its charging under 13.5 then the battery will die.
If your doing anything in the truck like listening to the stereo or in any other way running any of the electronics in the truck,
the engine must also be running or you will kill the battery in 20 mins or less.

NOTE on these trucks their are numerous computer systems that turn on when the ignition key is powered, not just a radio for example

 

what size battery changer are you using? I suggest to use a 6 amp charger and charge the battery for 5 hours.
disconnect it from the charging system first.

It's a brand new OEM battery (Interstate Batteries, Mega-Tron Plus 49/H8, 100 Ah, 910 cranking amps, 730 cold cranking amps, 175 minutes reserve capacity @ 25A). I contacted the dealership and they've just about had it with this car - they'll look at it to see if the problem lies with the work they did (the blower, hood fuse box or door module) as to honor their shop's 12k miles/12 months warranty. No troubleshooting/diagnosing the dead battery issue anymore, no extensive labor hours, no loaners, no more courtesies. I still plan on taking it in next week, but with that grim news I figured in the mean time I should still try to see what I can find out myself (and start shopping for a bicycle LOL). I started the process of charging the battery with the hobby/multi-charger (see notes below). Based on the readings below is it safe to say the battery is good (discharges at a normal rate while disconnected) and there's definitely a parasitic draw? Does it tell anything else?

-

2.35V, 0.033A - battery still connected to car, current tested also

4.26V - battery disconnected from car, voltage is from battery by itself. Started charging with hobby/multi-charger (initially got "low voltage" error when set charge to 6A at 12V, so changed it to 2A at 6V and that started successfully)

11.41V - after 2 hours on the charger (2A at 6V). Disconnected charger because I had to run to a client and didn't feel safe leaving the charging unattended.

10.82V - after 5 hours of being off the charger (0.59 drop in voltage from last reading)

10.75V - after 20 hours of being off the charger (0.07 drop in voltage from last reading, 0.66 overall)

10.47V - after 27 hours of being off the charger (0.28 drop in voltage from last reading, 0.94 overall). Charger reconnected and set to charge 6A at 12V (no error this time)

11.48V - after 2 hours on the charger (6A at 12V). Got "over capacity cutoff" error and charging stopped, probably because that's a builtin safety setting in the charger and I didn't change it's default (likely 2500 mA/2.5A). Disconnected charger again for safely (until I have a block of hours to try again).

11.41V - after 4 hours of being off the charger from the last partial charge (0.07 drop in voltage)

 

Our cooling fan for the E box seems to run a long time and once after opening the car door after a couple of hours the E fan was running. Not sure if it came on due to opening car or it never shut off. It has a heat sensor that activates it at around 95F. A temp in several parts of the world that is not hard to reach even with the engine off. Having said that we have not had a no start from a dead battery until the canadian tire battery I got when we bought the car died 3 months before the 3 year warranty was up. I load tested the battery to find the failure. If your battery has dropped that much i hope it will recover from that deep discharge. Let us know what the voltage is at the battery as mentioned above and good luck and some lateral thinking.

 

Bruzer,have you ever connected an amp meter in series at the negative terminal of the battery and waited an hour or so to let the system go to sleep and observed the actual amperage draw? The amount of draw may help determine what system or systems are remaining powered up. Just a thought. Normal should be less than a 100 ma.

 

The car has been dead (nothing physical/on the surface powers on) for several days and the current was 33 mA.

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Bruzer - You really should watch the video I linked earlier. It is extremely easy to follow and tells you exactly what to do. Your earlier response reflects you have the proper meter.

Once you watch the video you will say "Dude - I can do this".

 

Ya, I'm going to follow that video when I have time and a charged battery. It's funny, I saw that video years ago and was fascinated and watched it all the way through despite not having any cars issues back then. I f'ing jinx myself LOL

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based on those readings the battery is damaged.

Your battery thats fully charged will give about 12.8 v,
a brand new battery thats holding at 11.4 after charging is damaged.
NOTE a severe discharge like what you keep experiencing will damage a new battery.

my suggestion disconnect the negative terminal when you park the truck, this will protect the battery .
you didnt give any running readings from the charging system so you still have more work to do.

you should see about getting a new battery or take it and have it charged and tested at your local FLAPS.

If you dont disconnect the battery when the engine is off your going to kill another battery.

 

How do I get readings from the charging system?

FLAPS?

Ya, I thought about installing a kill switch for the negative battery cable if the mechanics are unsuccessful

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put a multi meter on the battery with the engine running have someone hold the gas at 1500 rpm,
take a reading after the engine has run for about 2 mins,
follow the numbers posted above.

FLAPS = favorite local auto parts store

NOTE until you get the problem fixed you have to disconnect the battery when you shut off the engine, every time or you will kill another one

 

I remember a thread a few years ago where someone recently had a windshield replaced, and afterwards his RR developed a battery drain. Cause for the battery drain was a damaged rain sensor which took down the CANbus network, preventing the various control modules to enter sleep mode. With you having so many circuits with parasitic drains, maybe you could have a similar problem?

 

Ha, I was just thinking that too (one defective component silently affecting others over the last two and a half years). Especially considering that time the engine bay fuse box reported 10 circuits drawing power when the car was off.

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^^^^Good memory Eric,.
I remember that as well after your reminder

 

Guys, a couple of things. First, as previously stated, the discharge rate of 33 ma is about correct to most vehicles. The problem I see here is the battery not having 12.6 volts when the battery is fully charged. The over-capacity cut off may mean that the battery has a shorted cell, which will draw excessive current from the charger, (over-capacity) and keep the battery from fully charging. This will also create other issues with various circuits depending on FULL (12.6 volts), including the sleep cycle. Nothing will work properly with a defective battery. Let's eliminate the possibilities one-by-one, using the basics first. Ihave, BTW, had my share of issues with Interstate batteries, to the point of no longer depending on them. Just a fact. Ray

 

Is there anything at all that is not working 100%?

i have encountered everything from a bad headlight wiper motor to a rain sensor one time even a bad tow light module.

if you have anything not working, pull the fuse and see what happens.

As a lost resort, I had a few jags lol!

remove every fuse and replace them one by one until you find an an usual drain. This could take a long time, but it works.

 

As a purely anecdotal piece of information, I had an intermittent dead battery on my 04 until I changed the air suspension compressor (which I changed, not to solve the battery drain problem, but because it needed it in its own right). The battery drain repair was an unintended consequence.

 

The Satellite Navigation DVD box in the trunk of the car drains my battery. I used a clamp meter and pulled fuses and checked what caused the drain to stop. The only annoying thing was I waited 15 minutes for the car to go to sleep after each fuse pull.

 

I had this, turned out to be the glove box light switch was loose and would randomly turn on the glove box light which would trigger the onboard computer. When I turned off the car and locked it the OBC waited for all circuits to go dead before shutting down, if the glove box light came on the OBC never shut down and the battery was drained, took ages to work it out

 

UPDATE... still having issues. Since my last post...:

• I continued to charge the battery intermittently with the hobby charger. Reconnected battery, did a test drive for 2+ hours shutting off and starting the car multiple times in between; got charging system fault error throughout, got battery low start car soon error after shutting off the engine every time and got camera system fault error - the cameras and infotainment screen never powered on. Got home, disconnected the battery again (for safe measure).
• A couple days later I finally got around to taking it to the dealership, and during the drive there were no errors AT ALL and everything powered on and worked (WTF!). I did charge the battery with the hobby charger (12v, 12A) a couple of hours before starting the car to take it in - not sure if that had an effect on the errors not showing up. Got the car back shortly after because they said the battery tested good and there were no current draws over 40 mA over the course of the 4 days. My wife drove it home from dealership (10 miles), no starting issues, no errors.
• I drove it the next day running errands for a couple of hours - no starting issues, no errors.
• My wife drove it 10 minutes later to run a quick errand - charging system fault error
• I drove it 10 minutes later around the neighborhood to verify error - no errors (WTF!)
• For the past week I've driven it (disconnected the battery only once for a couple of nights since I was out of town) going no more than 36 hours between starts and while the car starts surprising with no issues the charging system fault error comes on intermittently

Using one of those cigarette lighter USB chargers with a built-in voltage reader I noticed if the voltage reads 14.1 or lower I get the charging system fault error. If it's 14.3 or higher there's no errors. One time when starting the car I got the charging error, but it went away after about 20 seconds - this happened only once. The voltage readings usually don't increase more than a point while driving (i.e., 13.9 to 14.0), but sometimes do decrease 1 to 3 points while driving (i.e., 14.1 to 13.8 ). The lowest reading I've seen while driving was 13.8. The highest reading while driving was 14.7 (this was only when I drove it to the dealership that one time... no higher than 14.4 since). When the engine is turned off the voltage usually drops to about 12.5 and then decreases steadily as I gather my things and exit - the lowest I've seen it before exiting is 12.1. When jumping back in the car (the next day) the lowest I've seen was maybe 11.3 (I could be mistaken here, I'm drawing from memory). I haven't gotten the battery low error since that first 2 hour test drive on June 1 and the car starts without issue (though some of the drives the battery was reconnected beforehand).

So... heh, any new ideas on what's happening here based on this new info? The primary issue appears to be the charging system fault error comes on intermittently with the voltage usually between 13.8 and 14.1.