Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

look in the junk yard?

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

It couldn't be something as simple as the key losing synch could it?

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

Do this - Pull Fuse #18 from in the Glove Box, put it back in, wait approximately 30 seconds, and see if the key is able to be turned, so that you can start the car. This worked for me, although I have a 2003 model, so not sure if the Fuse is the same number. It's basically the Fuse for the Steering Column ECU. Otherwise known as the immobilizer fuse. try doing this with every Fuse that may be linked to this system - Remove, put back in, wait 30 seconds, try to start.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

I don't know exactly what the problem is, but dealers are notorious for trying to replace entire parts when it could be something as simple as a damaged wire/switch within the whole component. I wouldn't pay $4000 without making some calls, maybe all it needs is something simple. Dealers don't do simple.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

I don't know exactly what the problem is, but dealers are notorious for trying to replace entire parts when it could be something as simple as a damaged wire/switch within the whole component. I wouldn't pay $4000 without making some calls, maybe all it needs is something simple. Dealers don't do simple.

Exactly. I got hosed by a shop when I was 18, broke, in college. Vowed never to let anyone touch my car again. Due to time constraints had somebody work on a car of mine 7 years ago and they tried to screw me again. Proved them they were wrong and made them pay for it... never again.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

I'd pull fuses, disconnect batteries, and even slam her into a telephone pole before I'd pay $4K for a steering column! Seriously though, it's worth a tow bill to get a second opinion. And I'd definitely make sure your battery is healthy and that it sat unplugged for some time to reset everything (in case it is an electronic glitch). I'd also be asking the dealer WHAT in the steering column went bad - and WHY it isn't independently replaceable. The entire steering column seems like a massive failure.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

I'm going to speculate, though I'm likely way off...

You know how when you put the key in the slot and you can hear the ignition electronically release? Is yours even doing that?

I'm not sure how that part of the ignition lock works -- is it RFID/proximity related and does the key need a good battery to tell the ignition switch that it's close, or...?

Anyway, it seems to me that if the ignition lock is not releasing, thereby preventing the key from turning, then it's likely a sensor-related problem, but truthfully I'm just shooting in the dark on this one.

I do agree that more/other opinions are needed. Try googling for independent shops. Two I found (first in San Antonio, second in Austin):

http://british4x4centre.com
http://www.drbeemer.com/bmw-mini-repair-austin/land-rover-and-range-rover-repair-austin.html

Anyhow, good luck.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

Lots of info here:
http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/6-range-rover-mark-iii-l322/53169-2004-key-wont-turn-ignition.html
http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/6-...-l322/43816-has-anyone-repaired-steering-wheel-ecu-located-steering-column.html

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

Sorry to hear about your issue, I am currently battling the same problem. I also took it to LR Austin, they couldn't re-create the stuck key problem.... $130 later I drove it home and the problem came back.
Disconnecting the battery allows me to start the car, but it happens again as soon as I turn it off. Pulling fuse 18 has been working out for me, but its still very annoying.
Does anyone know if this problem has been resolved by replacing the Steering Angle Sensor? Ive seen mixed results by searching the forums....
Thanks!

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

smanaces
I'v read of this problem on another post it's http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/6-range-rover-mark-iii-l322/53169-2004-key-wont-turn-ignition.html on the second page 4th post there is a link to photo where a person took drastic action.
Link to photo http://www.blackbox-solutions.com/photos/L322lock.pdf
Hole post worth a read Attie

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

smanaces
I'v read of this problem on another post it's http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/6-range-rover-mark-iii-l322/53169-2004-key-wont-turn-ignition.html on the second page 4th post there is a link to photo where a person took drastic action.
Link to photo http://www.blackbox-solutions.com/photos/L322lock.pdf
Hole post worth a read Attie

Does anyone know if that drill mod actually works. I have a ton of friends that would love to automate the solution rather than having to have a tacky looking button.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

I just fixed this on my 04.

Here's the issue: The steering locking ECU in the column is failing. This could be because the locking pin is not engaging (Your steering is not locked, correct?) or the ECU itself has failed.

Here's the problem: The ECU is sealed inside the steering column. Therefore the "solution" is to replace the column. Two weeks ago I could not find a single used steering column in the US. I saw two advertised for ~$2,000 (part only, no shipping or installation), but when I contact them they crawfished. The new part, installed seems to generally run in the $7,500 range at the dealer. I can't think of anyone who would spend $7,500 on a $12,000 truck. I might would have purchased the $2,000 used one, but since there were none I had no option.

Here's the temporary workaround: As mentioned, pulling fuse 18 and replacing is the temporary working. Now, if you are in an area where you feel comfortable and you have a strong battery, you can leave the key in the ignition. Once it turns it will turn every time unless you remove it. I put a black cloth over the key so it wasn't obvious, but mostly I didn't worry about it much.

Here's the $5 fix: Purchase fuse-tabs, replace the fuse in 18 with a blown fuse and two tabs, connect a toggle switch to turn off/on the ECU. Actually works pretty well for me and so far I'm happy.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

I don't think 2007's work the same way as 2002-2005

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

Thanks Attie and LEBoyd.
Thats right LEBoyd, the steering is not locking when I shut it down. I will try drilling a whole and see if that helps, otherwise, I will have to resort to a toggle switch installation as you did. I love this truck, but I cannot justify spending that kind of money on repairing a steering column.
On a positive note, I should request a lower insurance rate since I will now have a very effective anti-theft device installed .....cant even start it with the **** key :roll:

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

I feel for you and I had an identical situation as well. Got my 2007 serviced, and the key issue came up. Luckily, I had the extended warranty on mine and it took care of it. Makes you sick though to hear of so may steering column failures. What a shame.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

I fixed this a while ago for my friend and knock on wood that mine doesn't fail, but she seems to really like the fix: Pull the number 18 fuse and blow it (connect it to something you know will blow it with destroying the entire fuse housing). Solder a wire to each prong and then solder both an inline fuse of the same strength and a toggle button of your choice into the line. Prong, Toggle, In-line Fuse, Prong. Give yourself enough line (wire) to mount the toggle inside the glove box or underneath the dash similar to a "valet" switch from the 80's alarms. Yes, you'll have to push the toggle and wait 20 seconds before starting, but there's now an added level of security to your truck and it cost you $5 at Radio Shack.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

I did the drill mod on my 2004 car and it worked. So far so good.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

I'm glad that it worked for you, I tried it and the silicon spray shorted out the ecu and kept blowing fuse #18, lucky for me I had a spare column and installed it. I'll take the other one apart and see if I can fix it by cleaning it up with some electric contact cleaner. I think the lubricant screwed it up.

I did the drill mod on my 2004 car and it worked. So far so good.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

Would this be an option?

http://www.etrailer.com/Tow-Bar-Wir...ow-Bar-Wiring/Roadmaster/RM76511.html?feed=npn&gclid=CPX2iaz9nboCFRRk7AodlEcA-Q

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

So I read tonight that RSW Solutions is working on a fix for this....Check out the "News" link on his site.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

If anyone can figure this out it is Storey. He completely designed and wrote the software for AllComms in about the same time that I managed to figure out less than a quarter of the functionality he did on my own (his project had gone dark for a while so I thought I might need to DIY or else fork over $$$ for the real LR system). It would be fantastic if there could be an option to repair these things properly, especially as it sounds like they've stopped making the '03-'05 version.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

Hey guys, I was just searching for some other stuff and happened upon some interesting info on another site regarding this "not serviceable" steering lock ECU which is in a housing fitted with "non removable" pins. This fellow managed to remove the pins by spinning them on a 2mm diamond drill bit and pulling them at the moment the bit bites in the pin.

Once the cover is removed, the ECU is simply clipped to the steering lock and has two small plugs attached which also lead into the steering lock. Removal of the ECU is simply a case of unplugging the two connectors and unclipping it from the steering lock. It can then be swapped with a new one without removing the steering column.

These are the "non-removable" pins :doh:

Now it seems that this ECU might be a bit more serviceable than they say it is :roll:

The tricky part will be figuring out how to find this ECU without ordering a whole steering column!! There are places where you can send ECUs and they will repair them with a warranty, but not sure if they would take this one or not... just throwing this out there in case it helps someone else.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

From each one I've seen, the ECU itself is not at fault, but a mechanical failure of the securing magnet solenoid, which is manufactured by Kuhnke, but BMW owns the rights to the design, and they wouldn't be able to sell them to anyone even if they were still able to manufacture them.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

Hmm, well thats too bad... in the case of that guy, replacing the board did work (but he bought a whole column to get one).

 

in the case of that guy, replacing the board did work

Interesting, and I've waded through a bunch of discussions on this, but don't think I came across that one... If you still have it handy, mind posting/PMing a link to that.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

Here is the link to the other site:

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f10/steering-column-ecu-234273.html

Does not contain much info not included here, I just pulled the relevant bits and figured it is safer than using a link since links can go away over time

If this ever happens to me, I'll have to diagnose whether the signal from the ecu is getting sent to the solenoid or not. It is really too bad they can't sell these parts by themselves. I'm sure if you pressed them on it they'd fall back to some sort of "liability" excuse. I don't really buy it, but I've been told things like that in the past when trying to get dealers to sell me things which I know the part numbers for but you can't normally buy.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

From what I've seen on several now, and will have another to check with here shortly thanks to Zubi, is that the solenoid, pictured below, starts to bind.

The pin that holds the Locking Bolt in the unlocked position(blue part) has lateral pressure applied to it by the bolt whenever the column is unlocked. This pushes the back half of the solenoid(which has a small magnet clipped on it for the two internal Hall effect sensors that are built in) in the opposite direction, and causes the magnet to bind in the sensor's bore. Eventually it breaks, and either still moves fine, just without the magnet attached(not sending the position signal back to the SCL ECU) or binds up to where the solenoid action can not overcome.

Most of the time it fails with the column unlocked, which is the solenoid's non-energized state, as this is when the lateral load of the 'bolt' is acting on it, and the solenoid can not pull it back and allow the column to lock. The electrical reset (fuse 18 ) will work in this case, as once the SCL ECU is powered back up, it sees the Hall effect sensors in the unlocked position, and does not request movement. The reset needs to be done each key cycle, as it will fault out as soon as it sees that it cannot lock the column.
I have seen a few(far less common) fail with the column locked. I have seen this from both the sensor magnet binding, just middle of the bore, and from the magnet being completely detached. When it is completely detached the solenoid still works properly, and the column will unlock when the key is inserted, however it will not unlock the ignition key, as it does not see the solenoid(securing magnet) change to the correct position, and the column will relock itself.

I don't know if a software fix will work on this, reasoning being that it will need the SCL ECU to drive the locking bolt motor to an unlocked position, or do nothing at all if column is dead unlocked, and then not do anything at all with the column lock, but still unlock the ignition each time. Also, if it failed in the locked position, there would need to be a manual override to the column lock, even if software is able to overcome the normal unlock procedure.

Where I am at with this, is physically and permanently unlocking the column, and feeding false signals back to the SCL ECU. I have not been able to find a source for a solenoid that has the same sensor set up as what is needed(Kuhnke HS7378 ) and with similar dimensions to allow it to work properly. At first I was against the idea of having the column permanently unlocked, but after some thought realized that every L322 after mid-07 do not have a locking column(or ignition cylinder for that matter)

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

Where I am at with this, is physically and permanently unlocking the column, and feeding false signals back to the SCL ECU. I have not been able to find a source for a solenoid that has the same sensor set up as what is needed(Kuhnke HS7378 ) and with similar dimensions to allow it to work properly. At first I was against the idea of having the column permanently unlocked, but after some thought realized that every L322 after mid-07 do not have a locking column(or ignition cylinder for that matter)

I see no reason why you couldn't fool the ECU like this if the steering can be permanently unlocked. Just a matter of knowing that the signals are which the ECU is expecting and designing something to deliver those... possibly even using a different solenoid of similar design mounted someplace else which does not really do anything. Would have to take a closer look at it but not sure I'd want to take apart my steering column which currently is working fine!

I must have one of the early '07 because I still hear it unlock and I don't have the newer style flip key.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

Dave-thank you for all of the insight. That is good news that the more common failure is the unlocked position so that we can use the fuse 18 trick. So what should one do in the case that it fails in the locked position?

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

So what should one do in the case that it fails in the locked position?

Not much that can be done usually. So hopefully I (or someone else that is working on this) can figure out a viable solution in the near future.

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

I think that the way it works is that power fails in the solenoid therefore the electromagnet does not engage keeping the column from being locked, it locks when there is power to the solenoid, there is a small plunger that extends into the locking bolt and keeps it from moving into the lock position. Does that make sense?

 

Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

I think that the way it works is that power fails in the solenoid therefore the electromagnet does not engage keeping the column from being locked, it locks when there is power to the solenoid, there is a small plunger that extends into the locking bolt and keeps it from moving into the lock position. Does that make sense?

That must explain why Dave said it is much more common for the failure to occur in the unlock position- which is a very good thing so that we can use your fuse tap trick!