I ask, because, I'm pushing 114k and Rig is running like a top...Motor purrs and transmission shifts flawless....I just don't won't to open a big can of worms by changing out filter and putting in some new blood...I read on here somewhere, someone did just that and had issues with tranny not shifting properly afterwards...I'm planning on doing some wheeling this summer and I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing...Any thoughts on this matter, let them fly....Jesse...
ju1cy1
I have changed the transmission oil on my vehicle about 3 times in 2 years.
No problems, and don't forget you'll be lucky to actually change 50% of the
oil in one go.
No problems, and don't forget you'll be lucky to actually change 50% of the
oil in one go.
When I changed the fluid, I actually had the impression she shifted better. My mate on the other hand is less pleased, but he only changed the fluid, not the filter as I did.
This is a tricky question. Personally, I'd never, ever leave ATF in any gearbox that long, but that's me, and I'm a mechanic, and I'm a fanatic about changing fluids at or before their "due date/mileage". Two sides to that coin in your case....
-If you have been the only owner of your rig and are positive the ATF has never been changed, I'd say leave it be, because it's six of one, half-dozen of the other as to if/when you'll need a new gearbox anyways. As you say, you could "disturb" something by changing the fluid and filter (I've seen it happen) but at the same time, leaving fluid in that long isn't good either, and if you've gone 114K with no trouble, I'd say let it be.
-I use my rig to tow our shop flatbed trailer, so I'm overly-fanatical about changing my ATF and filter every 20K miles. If you don't tow anything, all the better. But if you need to replace your gearbox down the road, I'd suggest putting it on a 30K service interval schedule for fluid and filter.
-If you have been the only owner of your rig and are positive the ATF has never been changed, I'd say leave it be, because it's six of one, half-dozen of the other as to if/when you'll need a new gearbox anyways. As you say, you could "disturb" something by changing the fluid and filter (I've seen it happen) but at the same time, leaving fluid in that long isn't good either, and if you've gone 114K with no trouble, I'd say let it be.
-I use my rig to tow our shop flatbed trailer, so I'm overly-fanatical about changing my ATF and filter every 20K miles. If you don't tow anything, all the better. But if you need to replace your gearbox down the road, I'd suggest putting it on a 30K service interval schedule for fluid and filter.
I had the same doubts about changing the ATF (which has been in there for about 156k kms) and asked an official ZF (the manufacturer of the P38a autobox) rebuilder wether I should change it or just leave it in, because it's never been changed and his opinion was that a oil/filter change couldn't harm and should be done in every case.
But unfortunately I can't provide the outcome because I didn't change it yet
.
But I hope I'll be able to do it this summer (along with the viscous fan clutch, the A/C compressor and drier, the transfercase oil, the diff oil...)
Sigi
But unfortunately I can't provide the outcome because I didn't change it yet
.But I hope I'll be able to do it this summer (along with the viscous fan clutch, the A/C compressor and drier, the transfercase oil, the diff oil...)
Sigi
I remember this thread - It was more about changing the autobox filter than the oil, but I'd change it every 36,000 miles maximum.
It's an oldie though, but maybe helpful?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=947&hilit=zf+atf
It's an oldie though, but maybe helpful?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=947&hilit=zf+atf
Maybe do just an oil change..... and then after the filter has collected all the gunk the new oil has disturbed, change the filter and remaining oil....
My trans cooler blew at 90k and it went through about 1 gallon of trans oil as i couldnt change the cooler immediately. So it had a good flush then, plus when the new cooler was put in the oil was drained and filled - but I left the filter alone.
My trans cooler blew at 90k and it went through about 1 gallon of trans oil as i couldnt change the cooler immediately. So it had a good flush then, plus when the new cooler was put in the oil was drained and filled - but I left the filter alone.
I was wondering whether its best to do it in that order or change the filter, then the atf again later as here http://www.difflock.com/servicing/ZF-au ... ange.shtml . Think I'll do the filter first so I can clean the sump before anythings disturbedDan_UK_1984 said:
The garages probably advise against it because if anything goes tits up they'll be an fuming punter demanding for a new gearbox! I'm certainly no expert but if there's enough sheared off crud in the box to clog it then it must be shagged anyway. Still a bit nervous about doing mine!
Wow, didn't realize this was a hot topic...As for ownership, I'm the 3rd...Was originally a CEO company car for some radio station out west (makes sence, since these rigs were only sold in Cali.)...2nd owner was a DJ from same station, drove out here to Wis, where he traded it in for, dare I say, Ford Excursion...Then I came along and rescued it from the clutches of the used car market...Didn't realize what I had till after I got it home and started looking up info on it...For what I'd payed, I don't think the dealership knew what they had either...So, I'm sure it had a good life, maint. and all...Plus, all highway miles...To be honest, I'm sure I'm the only one that actually used it for off roading...Funny thing, the silenoid for the transfer was sticking because of never being used...A couple a smacks later with a soft blow and all was good...And this is why I ask original question...I don't see reason to change out fluid/filter...To be honest, all other high milage cars I've own, I never even touched tranny, and they all lasted...Point I would like to make out, is funny how LR decided to remove tranny dip stick all together...Its like saying, "its not that important to check"...This is the first auto I've owned, that does not have one...Like its a manual tranny, which most don't... :think: ...thanks for the replies...jesse
Interesting point about the removal of the dipstick/filler, if you do change the filter and oil how do you re-fill it and how do you check the level after doing so? Was ZF implying this is a "sealed for life" transmission and if so what is that "life"? I have done 200 000km (about 125K miles) and am asking the "when should the oil and filter be changed" question as well but cannot find any info on how to do it on the later units. Anyone with any ideas?
On the point of only changing part of the fluid, a system we used on Jaguar autos when changing filter and fluid was as follows:
After draining etc locate the return from the oil cooler and disconnect it then blank off the return to the gearbox (to stop leakage), the open end was fed into a receptacle, any bucket etc will suffice, to catch the old oil. The 'box was then filled with about 1 litre more oil than had been drained, the motor started and stopped when the extra fluid had emptied into the bucket, more fluid added and the process repeated until the fluid exiting the unit was clean. All hoses etc would then be reconnected and the level checked in the normal way. The whole was a bit messy and used some additional fluid but the Borg Warner units seemed to like it and certainly performed better after doing this. Don't know if it would work on the ZF transmission though.
On the point of only changing part of the fluid, a system we used on Jaguar autos when changing filter and fluid was as follows:
After draining etc locate the return from the oil cooler and disconnect it then blank off the return to the gearbox (to stop leakage), the open end was fed into a receptacle, any bucket etc will suffice, to catch the old oil. The 'box was then filled with about 1 litre more oil than had been drained, the motor started and stopped when the extra fluid had emptied into the bucket, more fluid added and the process repeated until the fluid exiting the unit was clean. All hoses etc would then be reconnected and the level checked in the normal way. The whole was a bit messy and used some additional fluid but the Borg Warner units seemed to like it and certainly performed better after doing this. Don't know if it would work on the ZF transmission though.
IIRC, one of our members went on a ZF course. I think the only comment was regarding the ZF autobox ever having filter change. Other than that, the ZF people expected the unit to have the ATF changed every 30,000 miles.
The confusion about the filter change came from the same source - the service schedule - as it states 'one time only', that being at the 30,000 mile service only.
With regard to the early and later model ZF's, the early gearbox requires filling via the dipstick stalk. The later ones are filled via a filler hole down near the drain plug for the gearbox. Obviously the latter is easier really. You can't easily over or under fill the gearbox as excess ATF will leak out of the filler hole. However, the former requires you to (ideally) measure the amount drained out, and then put the same amount back in. Then check the level, and top up as necessary.
The confusion about the filter change came from the same source - the service schedule - as it states 'one time only', that being at the 30,000 mile service only.
With regard to the early and later model ZF's, the early gearbox requires filling via the dipstick stalk. The later ones are filled via a filler hole down near the drain plug for the gearbox. Obviously the latter is easier really. You can't easily over or under fill the gearbox as excess ATF will leak out of the filler hole. However, the former requires you to (ideally) measure the amount drained out, and then put the same amount back in. Then check the level, and top up as necessary.
Gday guys ,i drain and refill mine every year which is approx 20,000klm,doing it yearly will only be good for the trani ,i have had a filter kit ready for the next change.My brother has the same car he had his seviced at a independent Land Rover mechanic and going up a long hill towing a loaded trailer the trani fluid blew out of the dip stick ,so overfilling as hey did can give a nasty scare as you look behind you with a stream of smoke and trani oil all over the place. :evil:
So if you can do it yourself it will pay to get it right and don't over fill, follow the filling directions to the T. :thumb:
So if you can do it yourself it will pay to get it right and don't over fill, follow the filling directions to the T. :thumb:
Found the plugs, the filler/level plug is on the engine side of the gearbox sump and also found the following procedure to be followed when re-filling after draining and/or changing filter:
Refill gearbox to bottom of filler/level plug with correct grade of fluid.
Ensure gearlever is in "P" position, start engine and move selector through all gear positions and back to "P" position.
With engine idling continue filling gearbox until a small thread of fluid runs from filler/level orifice.
Refit filler/level plug using a new sealing washer and tighten to 30Nm (22 lbf/ft)[attachment=0:wsdj3amh]RR sump.jpg[/attachment:wsdj3amh]
Refill gearbox to bottom of filler/level plug with correct grade of fluid.
Ensure gearlever is in "P" position, start engine and move selector through all gear positions and back to "P" position.
With engine idling continue filling gearbox until a small thread of fluid runs from filler/level orifice.
Refit filler/level plug using a new sealing washer and tighten to 30Nm (22 lbf/ft)[attachment=0:wsdj3amh]RR sump.jpg[/attachment:wsdj3amh]
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