Thanks Justin. Please take lots of pics so that we can learn from your experience! It helps the whole community.

 

Absolutely, I am a little late starting, but I will document all relative and useful info, Thanks Mark

 

What oil were you using?

 

I have always used the factory recommended Castrol. Excited to find out if I have the old style or new style guides and tensioners.

 

113k is pretty good. Ever do an oil analysis? Any videos of the sound? Strange that it would be intermittent, I had always thought that once they started to go, the sound was constant.

Anyways, bummer to hear this, but gratitude in advance for documenting.

 

Exactly what I thought, something mechanical like this is usually constant, however it certainly isn't in this case🤔 . I do have some videos I will post of the sound in the near future, and I have no I have never performed an oil analysis. Like I had stated, the ticking has been around for a while, and it has always been intermittent. Basically the noise was only present once the vehicle was warmed up and you turn it off for several minutes and turn it back on. (grocery store, getting gas, etc). I imagine this may have to do with thinner oil, and lower idle at operating temp. I could rev the vehicle to 1500-2000 RPMs and no noise was present once idle dropped back down. I had first thought it was a noisy high pressure fuel pump since assuming the timing guide/tensioner issues were resolved, but now I know. Im confident this is the issue, and I'll be sure to post the pics very clearly for everyone. Thanks for your comment.

 

I've stuck with 5,000 mile oil changes (and generally change at 3,000) and have not had any issues with timing chains on my ex. 2014 SC.

 

You certainly have the right idea, I am quiet confident changing at the recommended 15,000 mile intervals isn't beneficial in any way. I will settle for 7500 from now on and may decide lower depending on my findings with possibly locating wear in other areas besides the guides. Thanks for your input.

 

When you're taking it apart let's see if it's actually the tensioner guide. Human ears are unreliable telling what's going wrong inside the engine. Keep us posted!

 

100% I will keep you updated and take very good pics of the findings. I'll also do my best to pinpoint the exact cause of the failure. Thanks!

 

My apologies about the long wait for an update. I was delayed getting started, but am now well into the teardown. I am replacing any possible parts/ gaskets, that could be of future concern, while I am in there. I like to do things very thorough, so I decided to remove the whole front of the vehicle to access things much easier. So it turns out, this vehicle does have the new style guides with a pressed steel button, however, the drivers side tensioner has failed, and wasn't even touching the guide 😑. The passenger side has no slack, and the tensioner is holding tight to the guide. I'll be replacing the supercharger coupler, trans fluid change, and diff fluid change, for the simple fact it has over 100k miles. One thing to note, if you are doing this job or having someone do this job, I recommend changing all the plastic cooling pipes that are hard to access, most importantly the coolant Y pipe connected to the block (LR050935) w/ o ringed fitting (LR048473), and the oil cooler pipe connected to waterpump (LR028136) with the 2 gaskets (LR057396) x2 that you need to change ).

Ill be inspecting parts as I remove them for any other wear and will keep everyone posted as time moves forward.

I have attached a few pics, I have a much more detailed video of the actual failed drivers side tensioner and the normal functioning passenger side tensioner. I will post this on YouTube and provide the link soon.

 

Looks like you did this just in time. Thank you for posting this info.

 

Indeed I did, thank you!

 

Thanks for this write up! I'd be interested in what the actual failure is. Does the tensioner piston have a ratchet to prevent it from being compressed with low oil pressure? Is it at full stroke in your picture? If so, that would indicate the guide has worn excessively. Any information you can give will be appreciated.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

 

Following, as well. Thanks for posting this.

 

I was in the process of removing and replacing all of the timing chain hardware and noticed the tensioner for the oil pump/ high pressure fuel pumps has no tension. The spring has come loose from the plastic notch holding it in place on the back side of the tensioner itself. I checked the pump timing and it is correct, however, I need to change this tensioner. The one and only torx bolt holding it in, is easily viewable, yet Im not sure I have enough room to remove it without hitting the case. Im hoping someone has some input or advice on here, otherwise pulling the engine may be a possibility. All of the timing kits Ive seen include this part and the high pressure fuel pump chain as well, so either there is a trick to removing the oil/ fuel pump tensioner, or it isn't being changed at all. This piece is made fairly cheap, I'm surprised by how the spring is held in place. Ive attached a pic, any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Justin

 

Were you able to R&R the chain tensioner for the pumps without R&R engine? If so what tools did you use due to clearance issues?

 

Thanks for keeping us posted. Good to know that these cars have the updated parts. Do you have any theory why the tensioner failed? Lack of oil change, bad apple in the batch?

 

Unfortunately I think the overall design is flawed, Not only was the drivers side tensioner bad, the oil pump/high pressure pumps tensioner was broken where the spring is held into place, the design of that piece alone is a joke. Im assuming most shops aren't changing that piece either since it involves much more work. Both cam chains were stretched quite a bit, however, if the tensioners worked correctly that should not be an issue. I'll update as I move along.

 

I have a 2011 5.0 RRSSC and I bought used at 107k miles (2 years later I'm at 115k miles). I've heard the chain slop every now and then but it smoothes out after an oil change. I went to the dealer recently and got a quote to do new timing chains, guides and tensioners... $5500k... Do you think the cost is worth my time or breaking it down and doing myself? Is this a ridiculous amount for this job? They quoted 28 hours of labor.

Thanks

 

To do it right, I would change all the tensioners and guides, including for the oil pump/ high pressure fuel pumps. All of the plastic style coolant connections. If you don't, its very likely you'll have an issue not long after the job is completed. If $5500 is with parts and labor to do ALL 3 of the chains, guides, and tensioners, I think that is well worth it. I took a more time consuming route just so I can ensure everything is perfect.

 

Just curious, what was the failure mechanism of the drivers side tensioner?

 

It seems like it couldn’t maintain hydraulic pressure. I’ll update when I have more of a definitive answer.

 

I’ve attached a pic showing the spring on the oil pump/high pressure fuel pumps tensioner failure. The spring simply popped out of place. I assume other vehicles have this same issue and it’s probably overlooked, once there is enough slack over time you will start to get codes relating to the 2 fuel pumps timing. Poor design. I may use the aftermarket design with a tab, I’m going to do some testing first.

 

Aftermarket style with tab vs factory

 

Thank you very much on the write up and the amount of detail placed here. I def advice against any oil change longer than 5k miles. Royal purple and liqui moly say their oil last up to 6k miles so hearing the dealer advise for 15k is ABSURD. Such beautiful pieces of equipment and so capable. Surely would wished they wouldn't had cheated out of the proper engine design and corrected it in 2013 and seems that by 2015 they have fixed some of it but still there are pieces that still need upgrading. At 2023 they decided to fully scrap the 5.0L sc engine and now throw a 4.4 dual turbo BMW engine 😑. I will miss the supercharger. I currently have the 4.2l and love the throttle response of a sc vs a turbo.

 

Sadly this is not surprising to me at all. I agree that the timing chains/tensioners/guides are fundamentally flawed. I believe the geometry is mostly to blame, but the tensioners (even the updated ones) are far too easily worn to the point that the ratcheting safeguard fails. Although Land Rover did change the tensioner and guide rail design from 2013 on, I see that as more of a band aid fix in an attempt to prevent a recall.

 

Very sad to hear that it was a band aid fix rather than fix. Well I am keeping my baby for many years to come as it is a collectors edition but now idk if I'm moving into a 405 unless then oil was changed at less than 7.5k mile increments.

 

Known issue. Posted a thread about this a few years back. Everyone said I was an idiot and LR has changed the design and it “dOeS nOt hAppEn”.

If you do frequent oil changes I believe you can get around the issue or at least have the chains last a lot longer.

I’ve seen TC issues on a 2016-2017 models as well. As long as it’s the 3.0/5.0 any variant you could have this problem.

good job to the OP for the detailed pics andwrite up

 

So in your professional opinion, what is the most optimal oil change mileage intervals? 5k 7.5k, 10k or the garbage suggestion dealers give of 15k? And since we are in interval conversations what about for transmission, differentials, transfer case?

 

Thanks jcosigner for your work and documentation. This is excellent info to have as I am starting my own journey with a used 2015 L405 SC3.0 with 60k on the clock.

 

Owned several Range Rovers, and have been aware of the ongoing issues with the chain guide/ tensioner problems. Simply put, it is the soft aluminum of the guide and the steel of the tensioner rod that cause the issue. This was suppose to be resolved in 2013 and later engines so I thought. The new style guides have a steel button where the tensioner meets the guide itself. The thrust angle of the tensioner has also been changed (at least on the kit that is sold for replacement parts). I have a 2015 Autobiography LWB with 113k miles, and have had an intermittent ticking after operating temp is reached and only for very brief periods. This problem has been around since 75k miles or so. It was so intermittent, I thought it was probably a high pressure fuel pump being noisy since I had no issues with performance, codes, etc. Well fast forward to . I also now have a check engine light and a P0019 code. I was really under the impression all the newer 13 and up had received the updated guides, and tensioners. Hopefully 2015 is one of the last with this issue and the updates were completed, this is an easily correctable problem with the 5.0 engines, and should have been addressed well before 2013. Oil change maintenance was performed every 10k miles

I do my own work and am lucky enough to have a rack, so I will be starting the process over the next couple weeks as I can find time. Ill update this post with info pertaining to: If my engine did or did not in fact have the updated style tensioner and guides.

If anyone is having any similar issues with vehicles newer than 2015, I would be interested to hear.

Thank you

Justin

Hi Justin

I have a 2016 Range Rover Autobiography and 113k miles and after an errand to publix all of a sudden when starting my car I heard a weird noise. I did not drive it but had it towed to Prestige European car repairs. They advised me that the noise is certainly related to the timing chain tensioners/ guides and the cost for that repair is $34,000.00 plus. My extended warranty will not cover any engine issues related to (Tensioners/guide). I am screwed and can less.

 

So sorry to hear that but what type of insurance is that ... hope you didn't pay too much for it!

 

The only thing i can think of to help is to go and see and independent Indy shop that will give you a quote on repairs ....unless you know a mechanic that can help you out.

 

that sounds obsurd Ive seen full remanufactured engines online for a 3rd of the price check out the listing you can save yourself money and get a new unit

Land Rover Engine- LR113583 (2013-2018)

Best Price | HSE 5.0L V8 (2013-2018) Supercharged for your Range Rover, Range Rover Sport | Premium Quality, Warranties & Expedited Shipping.

www.roverpartsdepo.com

 

Local Indy shop in Indianapolis wants $9400 to do the timing chains in my 2012 RRS that has noise on start up but pretty quiet once running. The drivers side has a good bit of slop when I poke it gently with a screwdriver thru the oil fill cap. I threw it back in the salesman's face today, as I just got it last weekend, was told "no engine issues" And that the low coolant was just that, low and it was not ingesting it. I have fill that tank twice, but cannot find any leaks anyplace. Has to be going someplace. (oil looks ok ie no milkshake that I can tell). Love the RRS, but not liking some other issues.

 

I have a ‘23 RRS 5.0 Supercharged that has a very small amount of coolant disappearing to somewhere I have a feeling it’s either the crossover pipe or seeping from the water pump. Not sure, I have put a bore scope down past the crossover pipe and I do see some red coolant but can’t be sure if it’s from a leak this time around as I had a plastic fitting leak several months ago I could have been from that.
I have 96k kilometres so far with no Timing Chain noise!

 

Mine isnt supercharged, might be seeping someplace, havent smelled or seen any coolant yet. But I am sure it will get discovered when the timing chains are done. But if everyplace in my area wants 10K to do the chains, I will be once again leaving the land rover world sadly.