Seems Robison service believes a few of the old wives tales. Yes they can suffer from slipped liners but it isn't slipped liners that cause overheating but poor cooling system maintenance leading to overheating which causes slipped liners. My mileage in September last year is my avatar, there's another 13,000 on it since then. The engine came out at 289,000 and was fully rebuilt including top hat liners so any head gasket or liner problems are consigned to history. $2,500 for just doing the heads seems very expensive when for not much more you can buy a performance short engine (V8 Developments - 4.6 Performance Short Engine) or even a complete engine isn't that much more (http://www.v8developments.co.uk/pro...ucts/engines/long_engines/4.6_litre/performance_standard_heads/index.shtml)..OK, there would shipping on top of that and if your engine has been properly maintained, it probably won't need a full rebuild for another 50-100,000 miles.

 

That's awesome, owning it from new. IMO, the '99 Thor was the pinnacle of the P38 including the 4.6. Some people claim they were more prone to liner and cooling issues but your experience and many others disapproves that theory. Anyway, if I were in your shoes, I would find some other mechanic to do a full rebuild on your engine. That way you know what parts are used in the rebuild instead of whatever was cheapest. A well sorted P38 with a completely rebuilt engine sounds great to me. There no way its worth it if you were selling it but you aren't so the value is to you.

 

Thanks Richard and NorCal. Your comments were what I was hoping to hear. A slipped liner is from negligence and overheating and that did not worry me; I would never let that happen. HIs comments about poor manufacturing tolerance, oil pump failures and other comments worried me more. Richard, thanks for the info on engine suppliers. Local mechanics I deal with in the Los Angeles area don't rebuild but use short/long block installations, but I like the idea of keeping my block, crank and other parts in a rebuild. This should be fun.
Wayne

 

As someone going through a rebuild right now I’d like to comment like the others have just to reiterate that the engine is not nearly as bad as people like to claim. Not even close! I have found over the last several months that the most vocally critical people were also the most expensive. They talk as if the vehicle was made by NASA and since I know better from direct experience, nothing could be further from the truth.

A few months ago I was at Harbor Freight and parked next to a fellow P38 owner. While comparing notes he mentioned he had spent almost 40k to have a local popular LR mechanic troubleshoot and replace parts, and finally just replace his 4.0L engine. At first I thought he had said 4K. No longer must you pay the Land Rover tax!

This engine is so simple and newbie friendly, parts are very cheap if you buy from the UK, and it’s only when you involve a Land Rover mechanic that the vehicle becomes expensive. Crack a beer and watch the Atlantic British YouTube videos covering the head gasket replacement and you’ll realize just how absurd that price quote is. The vehicle in the video is a Disco II, same 4.6L Thor engine, and I'm using it just to show how easy this process really is. Come Monday when someone asks what you did over the weekend you can say with a straight face that you replaced the head gaskets on your Range Rover, it's an amusing reaction to watch.

 

Is it just me, or is the "slipped liner" thing more common in the US ? There's plenty of p38 around with well maintained cooling systems that are still on the original liners. Many more issues with corroded electrical connectors (easily fixed), and leaky EAS (again easily fixed)

 

I'm not sure it's that common at all, I've only ever seen one and that was running fine just making a noise as the liner moved up and down with the piston and was whacking the head. One engine I pulled apart had been overheated so badly that thermal expansion had pulled the threads out of the block on 3 of the head bolts but the liners were still fine. The likes of RPi make money out of selling replacement engines (still not top hatted though) so they will tell you that every single one will slip a liner sooner or later. They also tell you that it affects the 4.6 more than the 4.0 litre but, they sold more 4.6s than 4.0 so if the percentage of engines that have a problem is the same, and as the bores are identical only the stroke differs, then it will affect more 4.6s...Too may people seem to have read their BS and believe it, so any failed head gasket, whether down to an overheat or just after huge mileages will be diagnosed as a liner problem.

 

As a culture in general, we Americans are terrible about maintenance. Its not even part of driver training to check fluid levels or things like that. Tech inspections at license time are limited to non-existent depending on your state. And CEL's? Those things are annoying, how do you turn those off? Here in California, the average driver knows when to replace their tires when one of them goes flat. Which is a major inconvenience, those things only last 50k miles. Brakes, how do I shut off that light, and can I get new pads that makes less noise when they are worn out? What do you mean that tie rods and suspension bushings don't last the life of the car?
Of course I'm exaggerating a little and not everybody is that way. But the average American does less to maintain their car and takes no responsibility for failures. And that's probably why LR is in perennial last place on the JD Power list. I just looked at the last ranking, I would not consider any of the top 10 brands. My favorites were at the bottom.

 

I'll admit it's getting that way here too. It's only fairly recently the maintenance has been introduced into the driving test but that is no more than opening the bonnet and pointing to where you put the oil, brake fluid, coolant and washer fluid. I think it is more a generational thing. Back in the 1970s and 1980s when I started driving, my first car cost me the equivalent of 10 weeks wages (my second car cost me only 3 weeks wages but still lasted for over a year). There was no way I could afford to take a car to a garage if it went wrong so I had to learn how to fix it myself or get used to walking everywhere. These days finance is far easier for youngsters and they all want something that will impress their mates. So they are driving around in 5 year old cars, if not brand new, and paying through the nose for it every month. It is far less likely to go wrong but when it does, it goes into a garage with the bill usually paid by the bank of mum and dad. The UK registration system doesn't help as the number plate shows the year the car was first registered so no matter how clean and shiny it is, everyone can see how old it is.

I saw a survey a while ago asking how practical people are. The sort of everyday things like can you wallpaper a room, can you change a fuse, can you fit a new plug to an electrical appliance, can you change the oil in your car, can you change a wheel and so on. In the 50-70 age range over 90% answered that they could, in the 20-30 age range the vast majority admitted they couldn't.

 

When I started driving 54 year ago there was no way I could afford a garage and as I was naturally curious I had no problem trying to fix things myself and still do as much as I can. I did scramble one set of valves in one of my Alfas after replacing the head gasket and not setting the valve timing correctly. Recently my younger brother and I successfully replaced the head gasket in our brother's Pontiac Pursuit which is a double overhead cam engine so I think I get that one back. Two years later and still good.
So few young people can afford a house with a garage or even a driveway where you can work on your own car I fear this skill will be non-existent in the future.

 

Thanks so much for the replies. Since I purchased the car new in 1999, I have always done the brakes, fluid changes, serpentine belt, one water pump and air spring replacement myself. Basically, I did these fairly simple things because I wanted to make sure things were done carefully and correctly rather than quickly to maximize profit. Also this gave me the opportunity to clean things around the site, something shops rarely do. Economics really was not a factor; mostly just loving care from me. I just watched the video from Atlantic British and this is surely something I can do, and probably will. I change oil every 3-5K miles (mobile 1 synthetic) and she burns no oil in that period, so rings OK. I wonder if the valves should be ground and the head surfaced as a matter of routine? The lifters are quiet but maybe they should be changed (close to 200,000 miles)? The water pump failed at 100,000, and I replaced it with a new genuine. It is now another 100,000 so maybe I should change that for security? Finally, what about the oil pump which Robison claimed was so bad? Perhaps that should be changed as well? Is there an upgrade?
Thanks for all the comments!

 

I am asking these latter questions because I drive the P38 in seriously remote regions of the desert and do not want to be stranded by something that might fail catastrophically. If it just saw street use, I would replace as needed, but I must anticipate failure and this requires experience that I can find on this forum. I always make sure the water hoses and thermostat are good, and I carry repair bits for the air suspension, a spare crankshaft position sensor, spare fuses and relays, a laptop computer with RAVE installed and a nanocom. I do want to anticipate things that could catastrophically fail and leave me stranded....never happened so far in 22 years!

 

While the heads are off it would be silly not to lap the valves in with a bit of grinding paste and some elbow grease. If it hasn't actually blown a head gasket, then a skim may not be necessary although it's not a bad idea to make sure the head faces are perfect. If the can followers are quiet and the cam is OK, then leave well alone. They will have bedded in to each other so by changing one or the other you are likely to increase wear on the other component. Never known anyone to have a problem with the oil pump, previous version on the engine as used in the Classic maybe, but not on a P38 engine, so again, leave well alone. After 100k a new water pump is good insurance though.

I also do long journeys and would rather not be stranded. I've got breakdown cover but chances are any spares will take some time to be located and got to me, so as well as the stuff you carry (spare crank position sensor is a definite must-have), I carry a starter motor and alternator. You can't tow or push start an auto so a dead starter means you're not going anywhere and a lack of electricity due to a dead alternator means the same.

 

Richard
Thanks for your input. I was just a bit worried by John Robinson's negative comments. The engine is extremely quiet and smooth running. I presume that if an oil pump has significant wear, the oil pressure will just slowly drop and not do so catastrophically and leave me stranded. I did replace the alternator about 100,000 miles ago, and I replaced the air springs twice. Despite several negative comments, I have had good service so far from Arnott Gen III's. I also have a 2012 LR4 (5.0 v8) that just now reached 100,000 with really no problems other than an electric parking brake failure and a rear tailgate release failure. For the more serious trails in Death Valley, I really prefer the P38 because of the live axle and great ground clearance.

 

At that mileage, I'd replace the timing chain. And while you're in there, have a good look at the camshaft. Chances are it is worn on the lobes. As Richard says, best to always replace the cam and lifters as a set, to avoid a worn part wearing down a new one.
Oil pump is easy to replace if you have the front cover off for the chain, but rarely fails. I'd leave it alone unless there is a lot of contamination in the front cover.
As for the water pump, if they fail it's usually a leak, so not catastrophic provided you have water to top up. Check for play when the belt if off, if it checks out I'd leave it alone. The quality of replacement parts isn't always a given so no guarantee it will last longer then the one you have right now.

Filip