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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #1
I've got some annoying EAS trouble, have seen something about this some time ago, but couldn't find it any more, tried to search and read tons of threads/posts, but didn't succeed.

Most of the symptoms are: When I park the car in my driveway (sloping a little, parking the car with the rear towards the lower end), and shutting the engine off right away, the rear left corner sinks to its bumpstop, so I got used to wait a few seconds to let it level with the engine running and all doors closed (a little embarrassing, when the passenger is eager to get out of the car) and it levels fine by raising the rear end. Leaving it for days, nothing happens, so no leaks. Sometimes the same happens, parking on an even ground. Usually the car is able to pump it self up again, but sometimes it can't! And having lowered it to access height, it takes ages for it to rise again. Happened several times, had to drive home (almost) on the bumpstops and just a few km's from home, it levels itself without any noticeable reason. Thaught about a weak compressor, so I renewed the seals and gaskets on it. Wasn't that worn, compressor is from 2010, it said inside it.

So I mounted the compressor again, checked it was running (with Nanocom Evo) and pumping, so i fitted it all again, started the engine - and waited. And waited... After 20 min nothing had happened, yes it tried to raise the front end a little, but after killing the engine it lowered itself again. Restarting the engine, it didn't even raise the front. Left it running for 20 minutes again, moving it to levelled ground, still nothing.

I took some screens off the Nanocom so you can see what it says (reading faults didn't come up with anything except an occasonally "invalid fault code", which is easily deleted).

IMAG0136.jpg IMAG0137.jpg IMAG0138.jpg IMAG0139.jpg IMAG0140.jpg IMAG0141.jpg

As you can see in the first, it can't even get to access height... On the last four everything looks normal, in my point of view nothing unusual, thermoswitch ok, inhibit, door, brake/park, just the voltage could seem a little low. And noticeable the rear valves are open, the frot ones are closed. Meaning?

Hopefully someone could point me in the right direction (despite my limping english and possible unelegant explanations)!
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #2
Update: Left the car for half an hour, everything off, engine an ignition.

Went out there again, started the engine and left it running, and after a few minutes it started rising! Slowly, but noticeable. After levelling in, I was able to cycle through the ride levels, as if nothing was ever wrong. Went from access hight to high ride pro several times with no problems what so ever. Can't with my best knowledge explain why it worked now, but not half an hour earlier...

Had a look on the bags at high ride, they seem a bit cracked (reason for change, I know, have planned to change to Arnott's 2. gen. But not really in my budget right now. Maybe I should replan:shock:).

Could it be the pump can't pump up the tank and the bags at once? Will try the trick with the open door for 10 minutes next time. But why is it possible the car gets it right next time I start it? Something like restarting Windows after freezing or Blue Screen of Death? It's after all a computer and all computers I know have to be restarted from time to time.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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No, the pump has to pump up the tank first. If you look at how the system is laid out you'll see why.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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193 Posts
Check tank O rings. Spray soapy water onto the connection and see if there are any bubbles. And a pump doesn't last forever. I have two, one fitted and one spare. I cycle them every 3 - 4 years, then refurbish the one I've removed. Make sure the pump service kit you buy contains everything, including the diaphragm. There's also a small metal reed valve on the head of the pump. The gap between this and the O ring can become too big over time and it doesn't do the job its designed for. There are threads about this, and also some videos on rebuilding the pump on YouTube. It's all in the detail.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #5
Just rebuild the pump yesterday, hoping it would get faster to pump up the system... I'm used to air suspension from lorrys/trucks, but these systems are a bit faster to pump themselves up. So, I'm familiar with the basics of air suspension. Just didn't think it would take that amount of time and expected the electronics (eas) to be able to build up pressure, before it starts filling the bags.

So basically the system is ok, just the thing about the cracked bags, leaking in certain hight-positions? I'll better start looking for a good offer of Arnott gen II...

But thanks for tips anyways`)
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Even with a decent pump it takes a good five to ten minutes to get the tank up to 15 bar. As you quite rightly point out, truck systems come up a lot quicker! You can let it idle with a door open, or you can jumper the pump to run without the engine on. Great if you were planning on replacing the battery anyway and it means you'll have all sorts of interesting ABS and Gearbox Fault messages to look at!
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #7
Well, that's sorted then.

The other problem was why it looses all air pressure when set down to access hight? Sticky valve? A bit inconvenient to have the engine to idle 10-15 min with open door (in pouring rain?), just because I want to lazy-load some heavy stuff...
 

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I have exactly the same with mine.have bought the complete compressor valve block rebuild kit and done the pump today.looking at getting a 2nd hand valve block to rebuild and also changing airbags all round so I know everything spot on.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #10
Update:
As I remember, I mentioned before, that I have to leave the engine running for about 15 seconds, before shutting it off, so the car can level itself, otherwise it will loose pressure and set on the bumpstops. And be hard to get up again.
The door/disable function doesn't work at my car. A little funny anyway, but leaving a door open, gives message in dash about door open and the light goes on (except from drivers door, no interiour light comming on, but message in dashboard, wonder how this can be?). Cable to EAS cut? On my Nanocom Evolution it says door/disable: close - regardless if one of the doors is open (including hatch).
I now found out that the rubber of the rear left bladder/airbag is seriously crackled around the part, that is folded, when the car goes down to eg. load height, so the air obviously gets out there. In normal ride height, it's tight. Tried with some soapy water, lots of bubbles coming around the bladder. No bubbles (almost none) at normal or offroad height.
Sovled the problem (temporarily) by lifting the rear with a jack, letting it pump up pressure and slowly lowering the jack, until the car keeps its height itself. So the problem is air leaking by the crackles in the rubber, but once lifting over that psoition, it's tight again and able to build up pressure in the system.
Solution (of my choice): Just for now, I'm getting a used airbag for left/rear, replacing it and saving up some money to switch to Arnott 2. gen.
As for the door/disable function, I have no idea how to fix this. Maual override with a switch? Or how to find the faulty cable/swtich/connection or what ever?
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Why bother spending extra for the inferior Arnotts? There's been a number of people on here complaining about Arnott Gen 2 bag coming apart, the Gen 3 bags are supposed to be better but there's still been people with problems. When genuine Dunlops are so cheap and hardly ever fail (let's face it, the ones on the car have been there for around 15 years before they've started leaking) from Island4x4, why not fit those? See http://www.island-4x4.co.uk/spring-rear-dunlop-rkb101460-p-6.html and replace both for around 150 Euros.

To sort the door latch, see http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/7-range-rover-mark-ii-p38/131722-info-p38-front-door-latch-tests-you-can-do-home.html to identify the exact fault and then deal with it.
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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There is only one wire that goes between the BECM and the EAS ECU to stop levelling.

The BECM can tell which exact door, tailgate, bonnet switch is open/close, and then display that on the dash. It then sends out a single 'disable' signal to the EAS ECU - so if ANY of the doors/tailgate are open, then it triggers the EAS ECU to inhibit self levelling... well, it's supposed to anyway.

I would check the operation of the drivers door latch just to be sure it's working properly - it seems strange that the message comes up on the dash, but the interior lights don't come on....

Though (from memory) the interior lights are driven initially from the CDL switch - to turn them on BEFORE you open the door. The message on the dash/signal to EAS ECU is provided via the door ajar switch... but it can't hurt to check them anyway...

EAS bags - I had a set of Arnott Gen 2's on my first P38 (as they were cheaper to source from the USA at the time than Dunlops from the UK - but we are going back to about 2006!)... but my latest P38, I replaced all the air springs with genuine Dunlops from Island 4x4 (as Gilbertd linked to) - which are actually cheaper than Arnott ones - and to be honest, having used both brands, don't notice any difference. Gen III's whilst I believe there are better ride qualities due to the design, and being able to get a couple of inches more lift very easily - in my mind anyway aren't worth the extra cost for the average user... that and hearing of the crimp rings prematurely damaging the air spring itself as reported by a couple of members on this forum..

My 0.02
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #13
Great, thanks for some useful answers!

I hadn't realised Arnotts weren't so reliable as Dunlops, and i thought the had the "reverse suspension characteristics" - soft in off-road mode, harder on highway - but not the gen II? I did a wuick price check on the German Ebay-site, here the Arnotts are considerably cheaper than the Dunlops. I haven't looked at British suppliers, because shipping from GB to Germany or Denmark can be very expensive. Gen III I hadn't considered, too expensive and I don't need some extra inches (and I would have to manipulate with the height-sensors, to achieve this?).

I'll check out the door latch test (when the weather is better), as for the drivers door and cabin light, it must be the CDL-swith, mentioned by Marty. Changeable? I suppose it's located at the door handle itself, since it's supposed to turn on the lights when pulling the handle. All other doors switch on the light, same when unlocking the car with the handset. And all doors (including drivers) give a warning in the display. And NO door is able to change the reading on EAS on my Nanocom. So this cable must be damaged?

Yesterday i waited for at gap in traffic, standing on a slope, and the air vanished from the left rear bag, emtying the system. Drove on on the rear bumpstops to find a place to pump it up again, this time holding my foot on the brake to inhibit regulation on the system and get the reservoir filled. Checked the rear wheels before releasing the brake pedal and the car had risen to drive height. Should the brake not inhibit the system to distribute air to the bags just like the open door? On the Nanocom I can see change in the readout, when pressing the brakepedal...
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Foot on the brake pedal will inhibit any EAS movement for 3 minutes. If your foot stays on the pedal for more than 3 minutes the system gets bored and inflates the bags anyway. Try Island 4x4, their shipping prices are very reasonable (free in the UK if the order is over a certain amount), you might be surprised how little they will charge. For a bag to lose all air while driving it must be in a very poor condition so needs to be done as soon as possible or you will burn out the compressor.

Air springs do all have reverse suspension characteristics, that's why Land Rover chose to use them so the Arnott claims are just marketing BS.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #15
Emergency trick

I have ordered the Dunlop bags and got them a few days ago (quick deliverly, no prob's), but didn't have the time to install them immediately and the car lost its breath a few times - got to low on one or both rear bags, loosing air through the cracks in the rubber wall. Thought if they don't leak when in ride height, I have to get them up there, to let the compressor fill the system again (because disabling the eas with doors open doesn't work). Put a jack under the towhook (was a little lazy and it was wet, so I couldn't get bothered to get on all 4), lifted the rear of the car to approximately little above ride height and let it idle. Took around 10 minutes, worked a few times.

So, in case of emergency with worn out bags (and other curiositys like my car's) it works...

And now out in the windy cold and change the bags - hmm, no freezing, shivering smiley available?:?
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Re: Emergency trick

Rather than try to get the pin out of the top of the rear air springs, and easy way of removing them is with a wood chisel. When I did the ones on my 4.0SE, the pins refused to pull out so I sharpened up an old 1" wood chisel, placed it against the plastic top and gave it a whack. Plastic top sliced off and air spring dropped out.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #17
Re: Emergency trick

And the wood chisel thing was exactly what I had to do on the second one. Even though it didn't look as bad, as the first I removed (driver's side).

IMAG0201.jpg

Amazing, this thing didn't burst... BTW the front bags look good, must have been replaced some time ago.

Might be it's possible to replace both airbags in less than an hour, as described in the Repair Details, but that must have been brand new cars!

Thanks to all contributors - all your input gives me some more specific to look closer at (mainly the thing about not sending "door open"-signal to the eas).
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Re: Emergency trick

It gets easier with practice. I bought my ex-police car with a burst rear air spring, so that was the first job I had to do on a P38. Took me about 3 hours to do the first one so I made a tool to pull the pins out and lever the old ones out of the chassis and did the second in about 20 minutes. But I fitted Br*tpart so they needed doing again after about 30,000 miles. As they hadn't been there that long, that took around an hour to do both. When I did the ones on the SE, the pins snapped off leaving a bit on the far side holding it in place so used the chisel method and had both done in 45 minutes.
 
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