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Discussion Starter #1
Hiya all

My own 03 L322 has this annoyingly common MID pixel dissapearing problem and being someone with a fair degree of experience and sucess at even micro surgical level electronic repairs, i got some replacement ribbons from Ebay and had a go at replacing it. What an absolute waste of time and effort that was :roll:

I then looked at just buying a new replacement MID, but it turns out to be mega expensive and they don't even offer an exchange option. :evil:

That's when i decided on embarking on a new and daring mission to fix this my way :dance:

I am absolutely going to rip all this earlier BMW based equipment out of my 03 L322 and replace it all with the very latest full on spec infotainment gear, including Front Touch screen, Enhanced Sat Nav with TMC, Bluetooth Phone, Voice activation, Rear reversing cam, Remote Blue tooth Venture Cam, 6 CD changer, 6 disc DVD changer with remote control, Rear seat entertainment with Rear head rest mounted screens and wireless head phones, Television, and full Logic 7 Audio including Sub Woofer. All using origional LR spec parts.

I am determined to try and achieve this for less than the cost of a new MID if i can possibly help it. If i can flog off my old bits for enough, it may well come down to finally costing me less.

If anyone is interested, i will document this project from start to finish with photos etc

I have researched this very deeply using GTR, Microcat and my own experience, as i have recently similarly fully upgraded my Discovery 3 infotainment system, which uses pretty much all the same bits. So I know exactly what it entails, right down to the nuts and bolts.

If i bought all the bits i need new, i would be looking at near 11,000 GBP, however through a lot of dealing, ebay scouring, contacts and good fortune, as well as what i already have in my cupboard, I have already secured almost all the parts i will need, with just a few minor exceptions for about a tenth of that and with buying the rest new, which are on order I am up to only about 2,200 ish.

My new bits should arrive next week, and i will be starting by connecting it all up on the bench and programming it all up to get it to work together.

I will post up again when i reach that stage. :pray:
 
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Looking forward to what you end up with. Looks to be alot for the money. Keep us informed please.
 

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Can't wait to read more of it mate !

Cheers :thumb:
 

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Post the pictures and more interesteing post the parts and part nr. you plan to install... i would like to upgrade my 2006 Supercharged as well!
 

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Do you have a replacement wiring loom?

I think you'll find this is necessary to convert to the touch screen option. I also undrestand that the vehicles computer will have to be programmed to accept the new system.

I went down the after-market route, which cost me less that £400 and I got £120 for my knackered MID unit (after attempting the DIY ribbon replacement!!!)

I now have Radio/Digital TV/Satnav/Bluetooth/DVD/CD/SD Card/iPod/USB/Aux Video in/out and rear camera capability. :dance:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37537
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks to all for expressing your interest. i will do my best to fully document, detail and photograph it all from start to finish.
In fact i am thinking to knock up a little mini web site for it.
That way, i can have different pages for each aspect such as parts sourcing & listings, Thanks, acknowledgements and contacts, Pre configuration, programming and bench testing, Loom modifications, removal of old bits, fitting of new and nitty gritty final misc problem solving etc.

Garioch.
I really loved reading about your project, really nice job on documenting it BTW :thumb:
I am glad you are happy with the results, It's always much more satisfying to have done in yourself than to have simply bought it ready fitted, and certainly it was a very cost effective solution and modification.
After market is not for me though, as i prefer to keep things totally OEM fit and more fully integrated right down to using the correct LR nuts, bolts and screws wherever possible.

I have included the purchase of a couple of new looms for the Job, which is nice, because the last time i did this sort of thing on my Disco 3, i started with a second hand one from a fire damaged donar, that had been chopped up a bit by the fire brigade and i had to do a fair bit of repairing and rebuilding first. Also the one i had was not for Logic 7, so i had to add a few extra wires etc.

As opposed to this project, where i intend to make an add in overlay loom to upgrade my existing loom to the correct year spec, in that case, it was a replacement for the existing main loom, as i was also adding electric heated front & rear seats, PDC and a whole host of other stuff at the same time. Physically swapping it out was fun though :lol:



Your understanding is correct, I will of course have to reprogram and modify the settings in a good number of the vehicles existing ECU's, (i will also be modifying the main LCS's GM, VN and SN data in the Instrument Pack and EWS3D immobilizer for absolute correctness), but this programming will be not so much to get the existing ECU's to accept the new hardware as opposed to getting them to continue to work correctly without the removed hardware. However given that the configuration i envisage and am heading towards replicating was standard for 2005 MY L322's and that i have access to the data and settings for all of these, as well as equipment that easily gives me the ability to edit any and all settings at will, that is not a problem :dance:

Mind you it was a lot easier on the Disco 3, because with that, all the settings for the entire vehicle are kept in just one ECU in the form of a CCF (Car Configuration File)
here is an example of that.
http://www.blackbox-solutions.com/photos/CCF_disco3_new.htm

The new stuff will also need programming in order for it all to work together as a set and integrate with the existing vehicle systems correctly and i will be using a Gateway ECU which not only contains a CCF that i will have to make up, again using 05 vehicle data as a template, but also a set of SOM (Security on MOST) data. This is where every one of the new ECU's has to have it's Serial number stored in a master ECU that is checked against on start up. But again i have access to off the shelf equipment that can do all that.
 

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Good God! 8-0=

Makes my project look like changing a light bulb!!!!

I look forward to following this one. :thumb:
 

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Colin, if I was wearing a hat I would take it off to you. Sounds like a awesome project and I am sure if you do a dedicated site, it will become the bible for upgraders in the futre. As the prices of LMs start to get within the grasp of us mere mortals plenty of people are going to be looking at these upgrades.
Nice work. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
 

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wow, impressive prep work mate! I was just nervous popping off my plastic Land Rover emblems off the door panels! LOL!!!
I will be watching this thread with much interest ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks Guys :oops:
It's really great to hear that so many are interested in this and would possibly like to do the same.
If you are interested, please post up, as the more the merrier, and the more i know are interested, the more i will be able to justify spending time on it and detailing it.

On the face of it, it does seem like a major job, But the ace up my sleeve, and what i am most counting on, is that this is really only what LR did themselves for the 2005 MY, in order to add their own Infotainment (touch screen system) into the existing vehicle. TBH i am surprised they bothered, as they must have already been working on the 06 MY full CAN conversion, and as such i don't think they will have done much more than find a way to easily strap their infotainment system on the back of the existing vehicle technology, as simply and cheaply as possible. So i really do have a known good workable template.

The main problem would have been interaction between the new Infotainment system, which is largely self contained anyway using its own MOST bus, and the existing vehicles Busses (EG I-BUS) for the exchange of information. But this is taken care of by the small gateway ECU i mentioned. This was in fact specifically designed just for this job and was therefore only fitted in the 05 MY. So in essence LR may well have done us all a favour on that one, which makes a pleasant change :lol:

I hope to apply my experience and knowledge of these systems to sort and detail all the troublesome technical aspects, and figure a way to make a new add in loom such that anyone can simply follow and do the same. Thereafter, the physical aspects will be relatively easy.

In summation, i guess rewmer is actually quite correct, and as astute as ever. :thumb:

I hope to get the final bits i need to start the project early next week, and that will pretty much co incide with the web site for it going live.
 

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Hey Colin,
Please do a website. I'll be one of your more avid readers.

I was considering doing the same (even studied the 05 wiring diagrams for a bit too) - but I decided to stick with I-Bus components as the integration of a CarPC is more easily achieved. My thinking is similar to yours in that I want an OEM look, feel, and functionality both in front of and underneath the dash pad/covers and, although it is a very nice install, something like garioch did is not what I want. By the same token, I did not want to end up with an OEM system that would not allow me to do a number of the things I'd really like to do such as seamless ipod integration (not cd changer emulation at a price higher than what an entire CarPC would cost), real off-road navigation (OziExplorer or similar) and, possibly, a permanent Faultmate install for a little more security when venturing further from civilization :) . As the I-Bus is well documented and there are already several front end software packages to work with, I decided to stick with this.

The biggest issue, though, is running sw not designed for the BMW rotary input knob as you have no other input device - and in trying to keep it OEM I will not have a mouse or similar floating around the car. So the 2 options I'm playing with: changing the monitor itself to a touch screen (I already purchased a second monitor to convert should I decide t go this route) or, alternatively I've picked up a pair of 2010 steering wheel switches with the 4-way arrows and OK-button which could be converted to I-bus and mouse function (though I think this will be somewhat impractical...)

We'll see. Hopefully the colder months will bring a little time to work on this.

Here's a screenshot of one of the front ends (this is designed for the BMW rotary input knob):

 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hiya Steve
I guess i should not be surprised to find you into this sort of stuff in some way or other :lol:
I have not really looked into PC integration with the earlier non touch screen, i only have a MID and thats not working well as it is, :evil:
but i know a lot do it with the later touch one on D3's, Sports and L322's using the commonly availiable third party GVIF interface that is used to transport the NAVI unit video to the screen.
Much better resolution than any composite, but as you note, thats input only and the solution has no decent way to control a PC with Mouse like inputs.

Having put some thought into solutions for this, as you do 8~ have come up with thee possibly workable ideas.

1) Tap into the Touch screen wiring.
A really good mate of mine i do a lot of work with has tapped into the touch screen wires with a manually switchable relay and fed them to an external touch screen controller he fed into his laptop.
here is a link to a rough proof of concept youtube demo of it
http://www.youtube.com/user/wiggsdisco#p/u/9/GTUyE1SN8do
It ain't pretty, but it more than proves the point, and i was thinking that i could make a much smaller board that then could go inside the screen units to do this. But how and when to switch it between modes is still uncertain.

2) Tap into the CAN with a microcontroller and pick up the screen touch co ordinates.
On the third party GVIF interface, there is a tap into the Private CAN going between the screen and NAVI unit, this picks up the NAVI button input on tthe CAN which it uses to toggle the GVIF tap in between PC input and OEM NAVI unit.
However i am sure that this Private CAN's major job is to transport touch screens touched co ordinates from the screen to the NAVI and hence control it. So it should be possible to capture these and turn them into something like simple serial Mouse emulation outputs.

3) Use the 2010 wheel switch 5 way cluster switches.
I have for some time been working on converting the LIN bus based wheel switches of the D4 and 2010 sport to work on the earlier D3 and sport and am now very nearly there.
In my demo video, i have configured the otherwise redundant 5 way cluster to also control the audio, however i left in the possibility to configure them to feed into a Car PC or other interface circuitry.
http://www.youtube.com/user/BBSP38#p/a/u/1/PnD8gilLNk4
The 2010 wheel switches of which i also have a couple of sets :wink: is a bit different in that the origionals were I-Bus and the 2010 are CAN.
However that might be no bad thing as if i feed the CAN into an external microcontroller and use that to convert it to I-Bus, i might also be able to make a PC like output for the otherwise redundant 5 way set in much the same way.

Sadly there are only 24 hours in each day and exploring any of these possibilities further will take some time that i presently just do not have.

But as you say and i could not have put it better myself chap.
We'll see. Hopefully the colder months will bring a little time to work on this.
In the meantime, this project moves ahead with 22 kilos in 4 boxes having been shipped to me this morning to soon join the other stuff i have waiting.
 

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Hey Colin,
2. would obviously be the most elegant solution. (This is basically what the 'Hack the I-Bus' group achieved for BMW/early LM/Mini - and the info is available online so that you can actually assign functions to all the controls around the screen when building a CarPC or even replace the OEM nav altogether and still have access to all vehicle relevant info. This was the reason I decided to stick with the I-Bus. The problem is that outside apps such as OziExplorer/other Nav programs/phone/etc still require a mouse. Hence the need for a touch screen/mouse...)

1. is also OK. Not quite as elegant as 2. but quite workable and, with a virtual keyboard, allow the use of a lot of different programs.

I was going to go a slightly different route on the steering wheel controls. I'd just planned to rip out the MOST internals and replace them with I-Bus internals and add circuits for the arrows/ok buttons. The thing is, I'd considered this as an alternative to a touch screen/mouse, but I think it's going to be impractical to be driving around corners while trying to maneuver a cursor around the screen with the arrows...

Despite the fact that I decided that it would be much less work/allow for a better integration of a CarPC if I stuck with the I-Bus, I still have the problem of converting the 6.5" monitor to touch screen. Had BMW used a 7" screen it would be absolutely no problem. 6.5" screens are hard to come by, though. I've got a digitzer overlay coming - we'll see how that works out. I'm afraid it's going to take too much of the brightness from the screen. I have that prob in my P38. A cheapo 7" touch screen that works beautifully - unless it's sunny out. :roll: Relatively small issue to work through in comparison to yours, though.

It's good that you've started this. It has re-motivated me. :lol:

Where are you more frequently, BTW, here or FFRR?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hi Ho Steve
Yep, i agree, 2 would be the most elegant and nicest way to go for a few reasons.
Easiest to retro fit, Ie it could be fitted by the NAVI unit where the GVIF fits, instantly cross compatible with L322, Sport and D3.
and you never know what other useful info i might find on it.
But it's an awful lot of expensive Dev time and processor intensive coding work, and i would still have to design a PCB and power supply, enclosure etc. I am just not sure that there is enough demand to make it a financially viable project, and i do have my hands very full as it is.

1) is easier to produce, as it's just a physical thing, and although it might end up needing 2 versions to suit the 2 physical display times (D3 and Sport being physically the same), the schematic for each and the parts used would be common.

I have not actually played with the I-BUS over much, although i have come across the group and familiarised myself with some of the resources and capabilities, and i have some of the Doc's tools and looked at the Bus's physicalities enough to figure we could probably interface to it from our existing server / VCI technology. so you never know, maybe one day there will be an I-BUS software module update from us. :shhh:

Re the wheel, yea, rip out the existing stuff and replace it, seems easy, and that's what i thought with the D4 to D3 conversion. I am on to about the 10th prototype and i could have probably bought an L322 for less than i have spent on the project so far :roll:

Anyway, glad i got you all fired up, you can blame me more for that later :lol:
I have been working on this projects mini web site today, some start up introductary text content and the parts list. A Page and a half of A4 just for the main bits 8-0= I am awaiting the arrival of 4 boxes of parts, 22k in total, to add to probably twice as much i already have here. When i have it all i can start connecting it all up and start the fun stage. I will be leaving a lot of part numbers out until i have assessed suitability so as not to mis direct anyone.

I have posted up about the project on a few of the most seemingly applicable places on the web that i am known for regularly contributing in, in order to raise awareness and share interest with as wider a number of interested parties as possible. And it's nice to see such a large response from some very interesting and very interested folk, including yourself :thumb:
However, i may subconciously just be generating as much of an audience as i can, simply because i suspect i will need as much support and motivation as i can possibly get to see this one to fruition. ;)
In any event, wherever there is comment in need of response, i will post back, and in respect of any development or announcement i will try to post up about it in all places :thumb:
 

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BBS SPY said:
My own 03 L322 has this annoyingly common MID pixel dissapearing problem and being someone with a fair degree of experience and sucess at even micro surgical level electronic repairs, i got some replacement ribbons from Ebay and had a go at replacing it. What an absolute waste of time and effort that was
I'm curious as to what went wrong. The cable wasn't the problem or you weren't able to fix it?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hiya nsxxtreme
It seems that the ribbon to PCB and ribbon to Glass connection is achieved only by pressure contact, provided via a sponge pad and a rather flimsy metal strip clip that is almost impossible to remove without some degree of distortion and twisting, despite not being heavy handed. I have researched and read all there is, most fully and completely.
I have no doubt that with enough experience and practice and extra care than normal being applied, i might well just possibly achieve a workable result, but there is no way me or Mr average could ever do that first time for absolute sure. And having screwed it up, there is simply no way back.

Even if i was lucky enough to achive this myself or paid someone else more experienced or competant to do it for me, at the end, i just get back to the quite minimal system i had before.

So i have another plan, which may well involve me ripping my L322 apart and getting various I-BUS, CAN bus and MOST bus components to work together, But that's a lot less fiddly and hopefully demanding to me. And the results will certainly be a lot more notable than simply having sucesssfuly fixed a duff MID.
 

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BBS SPY said:
Even if i was lucky enough to achive this myself or paid someone else more experienced or competant to do it for me, at the end, i just get back to the quite minimal system i had before.
No problem my questions were aimed at figuring out what the problem is incase me or anyone else has the problem in the furture. A lot of us would probably try to figure out how to get the fix to work instead of doing what you are trying to accomplish. That looks like a LOT more work and a LOT more money `) From the sounds of it, it might be cheaper to buy a newer L322 with the system already installed lol! I admire your passion though.

Would something like a conductive epoxy possibly work for holding the ribbon cable down?

Your thread is interesting regardless.
 
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