[04 RR HSE]

Weird things been happening with my 04 RR. Transmission started making whining noises, like a serpentine belt, then a Trans Failsafe warning, then an Trans Overheat warning. Had it towed home. Though it might be fluid related, so my plan was to drain the fluid, but on opening the fill hole to check the level, fluid came pouring out. Black, and a little burnt smelling. I drained the rest, but must have been two liters from the fill hole, and about three from the drain plug. Any ideas why the fluid level would be so high, as to come out with such force from the filler hole?
I refilled with the correct amount, but the transmission just wont engage properly. Barely moves in any gear. I'm thinking this is bad! It has 91,000 KM, and I've had it for six months, with no previous problems.

 

[RRPhil]

Were the whining noises proportional to engine speed? If so, this usually indicates a pump or torque converter problem.

Assuming that your transmission hadn't been overfilled at some point (and it's hard to imagine how someone could squeeze an extra two litres of fluid into an open hole from which the fluid was draining) then it sounds as though the fluid intended for the cooler & its pipework, and maybe the torque converter too, was backed up in the main transmission case.

This sounds like a pump failure of some kind, or maybe a hydraulic blockage.

Is your 04 RR petrol or diesel? (You mention kilometres so I assume that you're in Europe somewhere).

Phil

 

[04 RR HSE]

Torque converter makes sense. Very little movement in all gears. Where is the pump located? I may keep working away on it before towing it to a shop.

 

[04 RR HSE]

And yes, the noise was proportional to engine speed / revs. Any idea on which lines could be blocked? I'm in Vancouver, Canada.

 

[RRPhil]

Sorry I don't know whether diesels were sold in Canada or not. Could you confirm if you have a 4.4 litre V8 petrol or a 3.0 litre I6 diesel because they have different transmissions. The petrol uses a ZF 5HP24 transmission and the diesel a GM 5L40-E.

Phil

 

[04 RR HSE]

Hey sorry Phil. It is a Petrol 4.4 with the ZF5HP24 Transmission. Your theory on the blockage / pump problem makes sense. In addition I have noticed an oil leak that was never there before, and I am assuming it is coming from the vent system on the transmission, looking at the oil pattern, which makes sense considering the amount of fluid that was in there.
I haven't had much time on my hands, and I have spent what little I have researching possible causes for this problem. I still need to drop the pan, and have a look from underneath. I thought I would start with topping off the fluid.
Any input is much appreciated! Do you have any Drawings, or diagrams of the basic fluid routing through the transmission, just to see if I can trace any obvious problems. Thanks again.

 

[RRPhil]

I think I would first check the oil cooler and its feed & return pipes to ensure that they were all clear, with no blockages or restrictions.

You asked before about the fluid pump? The transmission pump is a crescent-type, fixed displacement unit (16cc/rev). You can see in the photos below the two drive dogs that protrude from the inner pump rotor and the corresponding slots in the torque converter impeller tube which engage with them to drive the pump.

The pump is housed in the intermediate casing which is sandwiched in-between the bellhousing and the main casing.

Because the pump is fixed displacement, above 2000rpm engine speed excess flow (i.e. anything exceeding 48 litres/minute) is directed back to the inlet side of the pump. This charges the pump intake to eliminate cavitation & noise. This function is controlled by a flow regulating valve and it might be worth you checking this valve as it can be accessed externally by removing the retaining plug which is located on the LH side near the bottom of the intermediate casing.

The valve itself may or may not fall out when you remove the plug, sleeve & spring but it would be worth checking that the spring is unbroken and has a free length of around 82mm. If the spring is broken or deformed the valve could be allowing a much higher proportion of the pump’s flow to recirculate, leaving nothing left for the transmission.

Your suggestion to remove the sump pan will at least allow you to see if there’s any metallic debris collected by the four magnets in the pan, which would indicate that all was not well. Unfortunately most of the pump-related hydraulic galleries are in the intermediate casing which can only be inspected by removing the transmission from the vehicle and unbolting the bellhousing.

Phil

 

[LR1]

Phil - great pictures and advise. I don't have my RR anymore but continue to read the board. It's nice to see people helping people and sharing their knowledge. I don't see it as much on the other boards as I do here. Thanks again.

 

[04 RR HSE]

Phil,

Thank you so much. Your posts have been a great source of help. Still haven't been able to get much accomplished so far, But I will let you know how the work progresses.
Thanks again!

Terry.