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Discussion Starter #1
this is my my mothers 2003 HSE with 100000 miles on it. She says it will engage in forward and reverse, but slips while trying to engage while driving. She is having it towed to my garage, and I'll drain the fluid, drop the pan and inspect for debris as soon as it arrives.

I've replaced (never rebuilt) about a half dozen or so transmissions, and I have a few questions.

I was going to take this out and have it shipped to a shop to be rebuilt, or just order a rebuilt one from a reliable shop. Can anyone suggest a good shop that specializes in the zf5hp24?

It looks like the drum has been updated...aside from that, are there any other updates that I need to be aware of?

thanks in advance for your help!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Quick update. The fluid is dark, but has nothing out of the ordinary in it (ie, metal debris). There does appear to be some type of trans fluid leak from higher up on the trans...I'm going to refill with new fluid and re-check. Fingers crossed
 

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2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Do you ever hear a loud ticking noise from the transmission? There is a possibility that it could also be torque converter failure as these are known to good bad in these trucks around that mileage. I had to do mine a few months back when I was experiencing issues similar to yours. It has been smooth sailing from there.
 

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ZF had already launched their 6-speed transmission before the Range Rover hit the showrooms in 2002, so the version of the 5HP24 fitted in the L322 was the ‘latest and last’ and had all of the development modifications since 1996 in it.

The most common failure mode on the ‘032’ model fitted in the L322 is the bearing between the B-clutch hub and the C-clutch drum which causes the transmission to go into limp home (selecting 5[SUP]th[/SUP] gear with a bang) once the fluid is warm e.g. after 15 minutes or so from starting, the transmission otherwise performing faultlessly when cold. Your issue sounds like it may be different to this?

I have around fifteen 5HP24’s on the go at the moment, but I’m in the UK I’m afraid so I’m not much use to you



However, the transmissions are very straightforward to fix if you fancy having a go yourself?

http://www.zf.com/global/media/zf_media/document/int_print_catalogs_documents/usa_4/5HP24.pdf

http://www.jagrepair.com/images/AutoRepairPhotos/ZF 5HP24 1 Repair Manual.pdf

Phil
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hey Phil,


I've read a great many of your posts over the past two days....thanks in advance for the STUNNING level of information you share. No codes, no limp mode, but random slips. When I drained the fluid, only 3.7 quarts came out...I think it should have been closer to 4 or 5? I haven't had the time to refill it yet, but when I do, i'll test drive it and report back.


Thanks again everyone for the information.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
okay, anther quick update.

Got the fluid filled to the correct level and took it for a drive. Heard an odd "droning" sound at 25 plus mph that sounded like it was coming from the trans. After it warmed up it would "boom" into 1st, slip, and display "trans failsafe" mode on the display. Would love any suggestions. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #7
little more info. I pulled one code p0730. I'm going to try one cheapo fix before pulling the transmission. Going to replace the transmission coolant thermostat (part number PBM000010). Will keep posted. Thanks
 

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Hmm. P0730 generally means that the ratio between the measured turbine and output speed signals calculated by the controller does not add up to one of the gear ratios - in other words a clutch is slipping.

Phil
 

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Discussion Starter #9
A little update. I removed the front lower splash guard and put my hand on the trans cooler. Too hot to touch. Both lines going to and coming from were equally hot. Not a very scientific approach, but I'm thinking one of 3 things might be happening.

1) the above mentioned transmission coolant thermostat has failed, causing the trans to overheat and go into failsafe mode. Part is on it's way ($99 at AtlanticBrittish). Read a few other threads that indicate these parts do fail, so fingers crossed this is it.

2) The trans cooler is clogged. If this was the case, I'm not sure how the unit itself would get hot...maybe it's partly clogged. I'm going to blow some air thru it and hopefully get some of the gunk out.

3) The internal pump in the transmission that sends the fluid to the cooler has failed. This would be worst case...but if this was the case, I'm thinking the cooler would be totally cool to the touch.

And, of course, it could be a dozen other things. I will report back once the trans cooler thermostat is in. Fingers crossed.....again.
 

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Hi Fred,

I fully appreciate that you wish to work through as many possible external causes as you can before having to resort to dropping and dismantling your mum’s transmission.

The L322 uses a water-to-oil cooler for the transmission so it is fed coolant from the bottom of the main radiator at a temperature of 100-110°C. You would therefore expect the cooler to be far too hot to touch.

Certainly clogged up radiators and oil coolers are a common issue on the early L322s. However, overheating fluid does not usually cause the transmission to go into failsafe mode. The display would show ‘TRANSMISSION OVERHEAT’ if this were the case.

I’ve never yet seen a failed oil pump on a 5hp24 (though there’s always a first time :) )



I suspect that you have in internal problem with your transmission

Phil
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks Phil. I believe your first diagnosis (b clutch c clutch) was correct. I put the new trans cooler in, and I still have the problem. I'm going to start the process of removing it....I've done a few (the hardest being a transmission from a boxster S with tiptronic - and this one looks fairly straight forward compared to that. I don't work very fast (because I'm 50), but I'm confident I can have it out in a day. Not sure if I'll try to rebuild on my own...found an excellent video about the teardown. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu54NqLob8s. Does look like something I can do.

Thanks again for your help and replies. I'll report back when I have it out....if not sooner.
 

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Hi Fred. Just wonder if you found the water side of the trans cooler plugged. Ours was plugged for a year before I finally changed it and it likely hastened the demise of the tranny_namely the thrust bearing had disintegrated on ours as phil has mentioned. i did not change the trans coolant thermostat but I did get the plastic manifold the cooler plugs into as was advised but ours was ok on disassembly. Our valve body had several scores from the failed bearing parts, I think, so a rebuilt valve body will likely be a necessity and this adds a few hundred to the parts list. Ours is still not right in reverse but all forward shifts are beautiful. The guy who did it is now looking for an unrelated electrical short (well an associate of his) which blows fuse #9 so I am hoping he will solve the weak reverse issue while the range is in his possession. Thanks for posting all your results and best of luck in getting her sorted.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The trans cooler looked fine - no clogs...infact, after reading thru my mothers service records, they replaced some component of the cooling system at least once every 2 years...that service kept the coolant very, very clean. Looks like I will have some more time next week to start taking the trans out. Thanks again for the replies.
 

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Hi Fred,

I fully appreciate that you wish to work through as many possible external causes as you can before having to resort to dropping and dismantling your mum’s transmission.

The L322 uses a water-to-oil cooler for the transmission so it is fed coolant from the bottom of the main radiator at a temperature of 100-110°C. You would therefore expect the cooler to be far too hot to touch.

Certainly clogged up radiators and oil coolers are a common issue on the early L322s. However, overheating fluid does not usually cause the transmission to go into failsafe mode. The display would show ‘TRANSMISSION OVERHEAT’ if this were the case.

I’ve never yet seen a failed oil pump on a 5hp24 (though there’s always a first time :) )



I suspect that you have in internal problem with your transmission

Phil
Oh dear lord, I purchased a used RR two days ago and already set off trans failsafe , at this point I'm not even worried about it because the real issue is that I've apearantly joined some strange car cult where everyone's vehicle stays broke down one way or another. This truck reminds me of my wife, taking the most visually stunning suv ever built for a test drive was gonna end up the same as my marriage. Madly in love and always tryn to figure out whats wrong with her. I'm gonna cut to point and order a new tranny for 9,000$ and call it my honeymoon!
 

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Oh dear lord, I purchased a used RR two days ago and already set off trans failsafe
ZF transmissions are use in most high end European cars and a few American ones. One wearing out is a function of vehicle weight, power, and user driving style. Probably some other things too. But going into fail safe mode doesn't instantly mean its toast. But if it is, it can be repaired or rebuilt. Happening two days into ownership is pretty tough and I would speak to the dealer or previous owner about that. But don't freak out, this isn't some exotic Range Rover issue. Probably not anyway :)
 

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Thx for your reply. Wow, this forum may very well be the highlight of my range rover ownership. I took it in to my local German mechanic and about an hour later he informed me that I need a transmission. Said he would prefer to install brand new oem trans, but wouldn't refuse to install a used one as long as it was in good shape from a reputable used parts dealer. So far so good. Ordered a used trans with 61,000 miles for 1,500$ free shipping . Was wondering what other components involving the trans should be swapped out while he's got it on the lift. Torque conv? Transfer case motor?
 

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I am pretty sure my trans cooler clogged up, which is what cooked my transmission, although I never got an overheat warning, I'm sure its clutch A slipping from the split o ring like phil said, and the A clutch is probably chewed up... I also got a used trans, 114k miles (pretty high mileage I know) but I'm hoping I can get another 40k out of it, my original trans made it to 160k before failing. the owner of the donor vehicle said the transmission was running and shifting no problems last time he drove it, seemed like a pretty honest guy and even helped me pull the transmission out, but you never know. I will be performing the swap this weekend on saturday. @Land rover Hang Over. good luck with your new trans, I think if you treat it right with OEM filter and fluid you can get another 100k out of it. did the trans you picked up come with a torque converter or are you using the old one?
 

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ZF had already launched their 6-speed transmission before the Range Rover hit the showrooms in 2002, so the version of the 5HP24 fitted in the L322 was the ‘latest and last’ and had all of the development modifications since 1996 in it.

The most common failure mode on the ‘032’ model fitted in the L322 is the bearing between the B-clutch hub and the C-clutch drum which causes the transmission to go into limp home (selecting 5[SUP]th[/SUP] gear with a bang) once the fluid is warm e.g. after 15 minutes or so from starting, the transmission otherwise performing faultlessly when cold. Your issue sounds like it may be different to this?

I have around fifteen 5HP24’s on the go at the moment, but I’m in the UK I’m afraid so I’m not much use to you



However, the transmissions are very straightforward to fix if you fancy having a go yourself?

http://www.zf.com/global/media/zf_media/document/int_print_catalogs_documents/usa_4/5HP24.pdf

http://www.jagrepair.com/images/AutoRepairPhotos/ZF 5HP24 1 Repair Manual.pdf

Phil
Hi Phil

I would like to have your opnion please, be advise

I have L322 TD6, with 5L40E, but theres someting that caught my attetion while i was browsing on the net, from real OEM (BMW), i have noticed that the 1st X3 M57N was using the same autobox (5L40E) before they changed it to 6hp26.That got me curious in way that i ended up wondering if i could change my 5L40E to GA6hp26Z found on E53 (M57N).
Things that i have noticed: M57 has 3 holes on the flywheel, M57N has 4 holes to attach torque convertor.
Transferboxes are different my L322 has NV225 while E53 has ATC500 wich is different from the back. Is it possible to use the one on Dosco 3? (Meshing 6hp from E53 to transferbox from dicso3)
Another challenge im not sure about is the length of those gearboxes, with regards to the length of both propshafts alterations. and my biggest challenge im worried about is communication from ECM, if the ECM from M57can be able to link with 6hp as it will need its complete harness to be linked to the car. is it possible to make (G6hp26Z) to make it work on the old M57 as it is used on M57N engines more. 5L40E comes with its modules which are also linked to the ECM how do i bypass/Eliminate those modules and use 6hp with its communication and link it to M57 ECM?

Please advise; im in South Africa, i would like to make this my project, as i found the care as a non runner, but not i can feel that it need that extra gear to be smooth, (with low rpm and be much more cost effective) or the other hand im thinking of changing that M57/5L40 autobox/engine to M57n/G6ph26Z if can manage to get them a complete E53 and use it as a donner to my L322. but my 1st alternative is to get advice as how to link 6hp with M57, if thhat doent work i will see if i can find E53 and transfer from it. (but my challenge will still remain on the transfer box and propshaft if the need to be shortened or made longer.

For futher questions and advices you may use my email address below, and also advise if there is any compansation required on your opnion please.
[email protected]
+27836814325 (Whatsapp)

Kind regards
Anathi Sonqishe
 

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Hi Anathi, and welcome to the forum.

I fully understand why you would want to upgrade your GM 5L40-E transmission to the ZF 6HP26, but I just think the effort involved would be immense and the problems potentially unsurmountable. The mechanical issues alone would be a nightmare (particularly the transfer box), and then you would be faced with solving the electronic/control ones. If you hadn’t set your heart on this conversion, it would be far more cost-effective to sell your current vehicle and replace it with a later one with the 6-speed ‘box.

I must admit, though, I’ve always been curious about the possibility of replacing the 5L40-E with a converted 023 model of the 5-speed ZF 5HP24 transmission, which was fitted to the 530d/730d models of the BMW E38/39. Clearly the bellhousing is already designed to mate with the M57D30 engine, has a torque converter that’s matched with it, and is also able to accommodate the NV225 transfer box (provided you use an 032 casing). The controllers already exist so the electronic/control issues would be much easier to fathom.

Although top gear ratio on the 5L40-E is a higher overdrive (0.75) than the 5HP24 (0.804) (the 6HP26 is 0.691), the TD6 has a shorter axle ratio (41/10 = 4.100) than the 5-speed petrol L322 (41/11 = 3.727) so you could possibly swap these out. The BMW E53 4.4i uses an even taller ratio (40/11 = 3.636).

Phil
 

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Hi Anathi, and welcome to the forum.

I fully understand why you would want to upgrade your GM 5L40-E transmission to the ZF 6HP26, but I just think the effort involved would be immense and the problems potentially unsurmountable. The mechanical issues alone would be a nightmare (particularly the transfer box), and then you would be faced with solving the electronic/control ones. If you hadn’t set your heart on this conversion, it would be far more cost-effective to sell your current vehicle and replace it with a later one with the 6-speed ‘box.

I must admit, though, I’ve always been curious about the possibility of replacing the 5L40-E with a converted 023 model of the 5-speed ZF 5HP24 transmission, which was fitted to the 530d/730d models of the BMW E38/39. Clearly the bellhousing is already designed to mate with the M57D30 engine, has a torque converter that’s matched with it, and is also able to accommodate the NV225 transfer box (provided you use an 032 casing). The controllers already exist so the electronic/control issues would be much easier to fathom.

Although top gear ratio on the 5L40-E is a higher overdrive (0.75) than the 5HP24 (0.804) (the 6HP26 is 0.691), the TD6 has a shorter axle ratio (41/10 = 4.100) than the 5-speed petrol L322 (41/11 = 3.727) so you could possibly swap these out. The BMW E53 4.4i uses an even taller ratio (40/11 = 3.636).

Phil
Hi Phil

Thank you for quick informative response, certanly i was hopiping for that extre gera that could lower my rpm, so as to be much more efficient, would that be viable to change GM 5L40E being a five speed to 5HP24 also being 5 speed as well. im not familier with a 5hp box, please advise if its a much better and reliable aoutobox than the GM and please advise if its using the same eloctronic modules as 5L40E, im not sure if im herering you correctly on that part,
I have a 5HP19 with a 16 pins connector but i doubt if it might be compatible for L322. GM has 20 pins for connection.
 
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