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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Guys, Please help shed some light on this issue. My transfer case won't go into low range. When I select low range in nuetral, foot on brake (no movement), the selection to low range won't complete. It beeps, tries to go into low but won't get there. When I put it in gear nothing happens except for a whining sound like the splines haven't mated together (didn't want to stay there too long).

Select High Range works to get back in high range..beeps then klunk..but no klunk to low range. Since transmissions are not my strong suit, I have brought it to a Independant and they said the motor was too weak..$585 to fix. I crawled underneath, removed the ratio motor and tried to move it into low range myself with a crescent wrench while jiggling the brake drum to help it "go into low" but that didn't work. Since the previous owner never put it in low range I think something is seized or gunked up preventing low range selection.

The question is, how hard can I turn on the ratio shaft without breaking something? I bought a used ratio motor and fitted it which did not work (I tested it across the battery and it turned in both directions). I think if I turned harder on the ratio shaft I could force it into low range but I don't want to break something and create a bigger problem.

Any Ideas?
 

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Re: Transfer Case Low Range Inoperable Automatically or Manual

You can put quite some force on the shaft before anything will break. Off course, it would be better if you could find out why it is so hard to get it into low. Removel of the transferbox is not too bad if you have access to a lift. That could give you a better view of the situation.
585 for fixing the motor sounds very steep!
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Re: Transfer Case Low Range Inoperable Automatically or Manual

have you tried doing it without touching the brake pedal and just the handbrake on,thats how I do it,I don't think mines ever been in low before I bought it and it took a good 10 seconds of beeping before it went in,now that I have used it,it changes in about 1-2 seconds but keep your foot off the brake pedal
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #4
Re: Transfer Case Low Range Inoperable Automatically or Manual

Escape, thanks for the input. I will try to use a bit more torque on the input shaft this afternoon when I try it again.

Hemi, I have tried it with and without foot brake and handbrake applied but I will try it once more. Over the weekend I thought I would exercise the ratio change from Hi to Low to see if I could get it to go in but no luck..tried about 10 times..

There are alignment marks on the ratio motor. Is there a standard setting for these? I am curious if moving these one way or the other will provide greater movement on the ratio shaft? I don't want to move these as they may be factory set. The input shaft is shown in another picture, clockwise rotation moves it to high range and ccw moves it to low..just not sure how hard I can turn it. The splines have to mate up somehow...

I'll report back what I find today.

I spent an hour searching for this info and there was not a lot about this topic
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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81 Posts
Re: Transfer Case Low Range Inoperable Automatically or Manual

this was copied from RangeRover.net

Transfer Case ECU
The Transfer Case ECU is a known failure item and its malfunction can cause the transfer case to lock in low or high range. Fortunately the replacement is not too expensive (compared to most ECUs
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Re: Transfer Case Low Range Inoperable Automatically or Manual

Hi

If the ecu has expired, it is common for the motor to burn as well. In this case the motor does not seem strong enough to move the selector to engage in low.

The transfer gearbox has a position indication switch from where you can monitor the position of the selector gear.



Un-clipping the connector C568 and test the path from connection 5 to 1,2,3 and 4 on the motor.



Wire colours:

KB: Pink/black
KN: Pink/Brown
KU: Pink/Blue
KR: Pink/Red
B: Black

The position switch is build onto the motor and this is the reason for the alignment marks. In case the switch is not properly set the feedback of the selector position to the ecu is wrong.

Regards

Jos
 

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Re: Transfer Case Low Range Inoperable Automatically or Manual

its been awhile since ive had this but i remember the motor being quite a strong unit (if its not hit) its hardly ever used and even with half a magnet missing and bits of broken magnet flying around it still quite happily could change between ratio's. The problem had been the ECU which managed to change to low and then thought it would give up there (cheers!). to manually turn the stub requires a bit of force but not that much, i found it's really about trying to get purchase on the rounded triangular stub than alot of force. I wouldn't adjust any alignment unless you suspect PO's tampering but as you've now tried two motors perhaps its not that.
At the beginning you mention
"the selection to low range won't complete. It beeps, tries to go into low but won't get there. When I put it in gear nothing happens except for a whining sound like the splines haven't mated together (didn't want to stay there too long). "
is the system telling you [it thinks] its in low range?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Re: Transfer Case Low Range Inoperable Automatically or Manual

LarryS, thanks for the response. Yes the ecu thinks it is in low range. The beeping stops then "L" shows up on the display so I think the ECU, the motor, the switch (thanks Jos Geuze), and the wires are all ok. I can hear the motor operating whether I command Hi or Low range.

I thought I would try a suggestion of changing from Hi to Low with my foot off the brake and just the Emergency brake set..that's when it my situation got more complicated and I think expensive.

I have created another issue.:oops: Before it wouldn't go into low range... and now it won't go into Hi..it just beeps waiting for the Hi mode to be completed. So.. back under to remove the motor and manually rotate the shaft into Hi range but there is torque applied to the motor by the shaft (windup). Meaning the splines to go into Hi range haven't meshed. Now I am in no-where land trying to get one ratio or the other to engage. I tried rocking the truck to relieve any windup or torque on the ratio shaft, tried putting it in drive or 4 in low range and rocking the truck, with no luck..I'm stuck in nuetral in the Transfer Case with no ability to get into either gear. What's the trick? Is there a trick to get back into any gear, with or without the motor & ECU doing the change...

I have visions of a flatbed and a big dollar bill at the local Indy shop (who are very good, but not inexpensive). I have studied RAVE Transfer Case mechanical drawings and can't seem to figure out what to do next except bring it in the shop. I can't remove the Tfer case by myself and don't have that kind of time....

With the help of this site, I have been able to do:
O-rings Heater Core
Complete rebuild of the EAS including O-rings in the valve block (Thanks Shupack)
Brakes
and about a thousand other little things

Thanks
Erik
 

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Re: Transfer Case Low Range Inoperable Automatically or Manual

something maybe up with the fork/selector and collar (forgot the actual tech terms, see RAVE) which is ultimately what that stub shaft [motor] is attached to.
if the hi/low system works if you leave the motor off the case then thats one thing perhaps not to worry about just now

"What's the trick? Is there a trick to get back into any gear, with or without the motor & ECU doing the change..."

not unless you can get that collar on to either the hi or low gear splines. which is obviously what the system was originally struggling with [or against]. If you get a sense of resistance at the point were the hi should start to engage then perhaps there still some hope that it may engage, otherwise you may have to go into the case.


edit: forgot to expand on the thinking behind my original question, which was that as the system thought it had engaged lo successfully then the shaft had turned to the position that should have moved the fork and the collar over the lo range splines, hence suspecting the fork/collar.
 

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Re: Transfer Case Low Range Inoperable Automatically or Manual

Hi

Maybe the issue is that the position of the selector in the gearbox and the position indication switch are not properly aligned. If I were you I would try to wind the selector until it is in the position of Left stop and set the feedback switch to the same setting by turning the motor by hand. Then fit back the motor and see if it will move to the proper position and engage the gears in high and low position.

I would check the signals of the selector position switches 1 to 4 by turning the motor manually from position indication stop right to stop left to make sure the feedback signals are correct. If one of the switches fails the selection position might be incorrect while the ecu is getting the signal it is in the correct position.


Is it possible that when you got the engaged in L signal on the display the actual position of the selector is at the right stop and that is why you feel resistance?

Edit: I think that this is the same thing that Larry is trying to point out.

Good luck

Jos
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Re: Transfer Case Low Range Inoperable Automatically or Manual

Update:

Was able to get it into High Range by repeteadly exercising the transfer case motor from low to hi, gave it a touch on the gas pedal and clunk! went back into hi range. I have not even tried to get it into low again...I'm a chicken. I did find a used transfer case (no warranty) from a breaker for $400. I'm thinking about grabbing that, rebuilding it and then installing in the Rover. It would be my first "big" repair.

More info I found while researching this issue...thanks celtic rover


http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/BOBCA ... 403971.pdf
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Re: Transfer Case Low Range Inoperable Automatically or Manual

My 98 HSE would not shift out of Low, so i disconneted the servo motor and mechanically shifited the transfer case (as i was in the middle of the Bonneville Salt Flats). After that I re-intalled the moter and it would not shift back into Low. after aqiuring a new motor the shifting was restored, the problem was that the motor had gotten weak and did not have the power to shift...
Keith
 

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Not seen this reported before

Dear All,
Here's what I think is a new observation that I've not seen reported before. My 1995 manual 4.0 litre P38 lost the ability to shift into low ratio. Using this forum and finding thios thread I rapidly determined that teh ECU was fried. Bought a new one. Noting the Landrover troubleshooting tip that the ECU rarely fries itself I checked the transfer motor by directly powering it from a battery. It worked. So I fitted a new ECU. Would not shift. I checked the ECU and again powered the maotor directly but now it did not work. Took the motor of and found that the carbon brushes had slipped out of their mountings and were wrapped around teh armature. Bought a new motor. Fitted it - it woudl not shift. Checked the neutral swithc - working, checked the power supply and the earths - all working, checked the gearbox speed input - a good 5V. So what on earth was it. Re checked the ECU - still working. So I took the transfer motor with the limit switches off, released th ECU and with it all dangling from the wiring harnesses tried it - it worked. Repeatedly it worked 100%. SO I refitted the transfer motor loosley - it still worked, then I slowly torqued up the 3 mounting bolts and discovere that if I tigthened the bolt at 3 o'clock it stopped the motor working. I could go from loose to moderatley tight to very tight and the motor would shift easlily, then when moderatley tight the motor would still shift but sounded strained and when very tight on that bolt alone it would seize. Re-checking all the mounbting faces and surfaces everything is fine but there is no doubt that the whole lot could be made to seize solid and become inoperable by simply over tightening that single bolt. I do not know wheter this is a quirk particular to my car but it may explain some of the "inexplicable" failings of the transfer motor of which this is my second. I initially did it what Iwould describe as "well hind tight" and this stopped it working. I now see that this is much more than the recomended torque setting which is really little more than hand tight.

SO add the the checklist - do not over tighten the mounting bolts.
Regards
Paul C
 

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Re: Not seen this reported before

You are dead on and I often forget to bring up proper torque is absolutely imperative for many things. Tighter is NOT always better! The rule of thumb is to snug things up and be happy.

On a side note I always encourage people to shift to low range and go for a quick run down your drive or down the block, in both auto and manual, EVERY oil change. The same goes for cycling through your manual climate control buttons and running all the windows and sunroof.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Re: Not seen this reported before

Just a quick thank you too all you kind Chaps who have given me enough too try investigate my 4.6 Auto Hi/Lo transfer failure.Changed the Transfer ECU and the Transmission Controlller Ecu.Checked the fuses and relays Up top,and will soon be underneath looking at the transfer motor and electric's below.Runs smooth and well in High,(stuck in high) but only works in sport mode.If i use the sport mode switch i can change gear at certain MPH.Don't wish too do this,also indicator's work but don't tock,unless Hazards are used.Lights on gear shifter flash,Hi and Low and Message center says it has selected correctly,so must be the motor on the transfer box not up too the job or perhaps the Neutral safty switch.??I would be grateful too anyone who has an idea,as being Disabled i need my Trusty steed to get about. Many thanks....Darren. She's a 1996 in great condition....68000 miles one owner,never seen dirt before. Cheer's.
 

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Re: Not seen this reported before

I just got a transfer case with 58000km that had sat for 10 years. When I fit the transfer case to my truck it would not shift into low. Lights on low side of H flashed but it never went into low. It shifted to low no problem before I fitted the newer transfer case so I knew it was either the motor or the shift mechanism internal to the transfer case. Swapped the motors and all is good. If you have a 96 truck that has never been in low you are probably in the exact same position as I was. Take off the motor (four 8mm bolts) and jump 12v to it from your battery. You could probably free it up which is what I plan on doing to the extra one I have now.
 

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Re: Not seen this reported before

Thank you ole Chap,i will be doing that today if i can get my Dodgy leg underneath.It'is absoloutly fantastic how reaching out through a forum like this,can keep these classic old Beast's on the Road/Trail.Thank's again rayodunne.

Darren...Jersey C.I
 

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2006-2009 Range Rover Sport
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Re: Not seen this reported before

Looking at Rave for a MY96, the two wires that drive the motor are RP(Red & Purple) - PIN7 & RS(Red & Grey) - PIN8.
Have fun!
 

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Re: Not seen this reported before

They are quite easy to get under but whatever you do make sure you support it on something! Drop the suspension to the bump stops. Will you still fit? Nope.

Your dodgy leg could get a lot dodgier...
 
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