RangeRovers.net Forum banner

1 - 20 of 47 Posts

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
211 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
2004 RR 120k miles. Trans Failsafe Prog comes on along with hesitation. Happening more and more often. Sometimes I notice the front of the car raises when i start it.
I've been searching the forums about this and going to try all the things suggested before having the tranny changed.
So far I've changed the inhibitor switch with one I got from the junk yard(probably not a good idea) and it did not fix it.

Next I'm going to try checking the transmission fluid level and change the fluid to see what happens(any idea how to check the level?)
Another thing I've found on this useful forum is that the transmission sensors (turbine sensors?) might be bad so theyr'e next.

So has anyone dealt with this issue lately? Just wondering if anyone has any other suggestions.

I really appreciate the help. This is a great forum and hopefully I can contribute too pretty soon.
 

·
LEGACY VENDOR
Joined
·
2,369 Posts
I think you need to get the error code(s) read from your transmission ECU otherwise you run the expensive risk of unnecessarily replacing a number of perfectly functioning components.

However, checking the fluid level is certainly a good idea. As you’re in the States I assume your ’04 is petrol so make sure that you top-up with LT71141 fluid only. The level should be checked when the fluid temperature is between 30 & 50 deg. C. With the engine running move the selector lever through each gear position, pausing for a few seconds in each, and then return it to ‘Park’. With the engine still ticking over remove the level/filler plug and adjust the fluid level. It is correct when a thin thread of fluid runs from the hole.

The combined filler/level plug is sited on the RH side of the casing near the back of the transmission.

Phil
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
86 Posts
You may want to check the condition of your battery and alternator first. I am currently repacing a bad alternator, and got a brand new battery after I received the "Trans Failsafe Prog." message numerous times as well.
 

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
211 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks guys. I've changed the battery but didnt make a difference. I will check alternator next, although not so hopeful on that.
Phil, please look at this picture and see if it looks like a leak. I'm pretty sure it is but I havent seen any fluid in my garage floor since I bought the car last week. Maybe a slow leak or maybe it has already leaked out all the oil :?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
211 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Ok after hours trying to open the level/fill plug I got it open but the engine was off and cold. Black burnt-like fluid came out and by the time I put the plug back on I think I got soaked in about 1 quart of oil. If it pours out like this when engine is off, how am I suppose to open it when the car is on? wouldnt it have more pressure when its on? Another question, how would I pour the new oil in? I"m half retarded so only thing I can think of is to flip the truck upside down? :think:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,119 Posts
gooddfella said:
Ok after hours trying to open the level/fill plug I got it open but the engine was off and cold. Black burnt-like fluid came out and by the time I put the plug back on I think I got soaked in about 1 quart of oil. If it pours out like this when engine is off, how am I suppose to open it when the car is on? wouldnt it have more pressure when its on? Another question, how would I pour the new oil in? I"m half retarded so only thing I can think of is to flip the truck upside down? :think:
I have to say when I saw the picture I thought "How the hell can you have a filler/level plug at the bottom of the gearbox" so very interested to find out how on earth you are supposed to get to the point where you fill until a neat trickle of oil appears....
 

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
211 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Gazellio said:
gooddfella said:
Ok after hours trying to open the level/fill plug I got it open but the engine was off and cold. Black burnt-like fluid came out and by the time I put the plug back on I think I got soaked in about 1 quart of oil. If it pours out like this when engine is off, how am I suppose to open it when the car is on? wouldnt it have more pressure when its on? Another question, how would I pour the new oil in? I"m half retarded so only thing I can think of is to flip the truck upside down? :think:
I have to say when I saw the picture I thought "How the hell can you have a filler/level plug at the bottom of the gearbox" so very interested to find out how on earth you are supposed to get to the point where you fill until a neat trickle of oil appears....
Yea it looks more like a drain plug than a filler plug.

By the way I pulled the codes and on one machine it gave me "P0721 Mil Off" on another machine it gave me "P1709 Manufacturer Contrl Transmission"
 

·
LEGACY VENDOR
Joined
·
2,369 Posts
You use a fluid pump or syringe to get the fluid into the gearbox through the filler/level hole. There is a drain plug as well and it's where you would expect to find it - on the bottom of the sump pan.

The reason you check the fluid level with the engine running is to ensure that the transmission hydraulic pump has filled the torque converter, the oil cooler, the valve block & all of its galleries. If you check the level with the engine off, some of this fluid will have drained back into the transmission sump pan and will therefore overflow when you remove the level plug.

P1709 is related to a CAN bus error on the transfer box ECU and P0721 indicates an implausibly high output speed measured by the transmission output speed sensor. It might be worth removing the sensor and checking its winding resistance, which should be somewhere between 285 and 365 Ohms at room temperature.

Phil
 

Attachments

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
211 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Phil you're awesome. Its in a friend of a friends shop now. I did think that the oil will be busy somewhere when the engine is running so I can check it but one reason I got frustrated and sent it to the shop was because I couldnt find the fluid for lower than $48 a quart/liter "outrageous". I will forward your suggestion to them though, I never fully trust the shops judgment.
I'll let you guys know how it went.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
yah phil, your awesome.
 

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
211 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Just an update. They changed the fluid(9 quarts) and filter but still acts the same way. He said it was fine for a few minutes but then the message came up again. He also said there was some metal in the pan so a little bit of concern there.
He's going to check the speed sensor today. :pray: I hope this is it.
Anything else that can be checked or am I out of luck if its not the sensor?
 

·
LEGACY VENDOR
Joined
·
2,369 Posts
Is it fine each time you start up from cold but the message then appears after a few minutes i.e. once the fluid starts to warm up?

Phil
 

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
211 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Yes I would say thats how it is most of the time.
 

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
211 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Shop just called. He said he's going to replace both input and output sensors($85 a piece + 1-2 hour labor). I guess he couldnt figure out how to test them. I told him to go ahead.
 

·
LEGACY VENDOR
Joined
·
2,369 Posts
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you but I must confess that I'm not very optimistic about the speed sensors being the cause. The temperature dependency sounds like a clutch seal problem IMHO. When they remove the turbine (input) speed sensor could you ask them to check if it's covered in metallic debris like the one in the photo below?

Anyway, good luck!

Phil
 

Attachments

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
211 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Thanks Phil. Sure I'll ask him to check that. Will know what happens sometime tomorrow.
 

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
211 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Phil, he said there was no metallic debris on the input sensor. Sensors were replaced but it still gives the code.
When the truck is dead cold it takes a few minutes but when it comes up it doesnt go away. It got like this gradually because before you would turn it off and wait a few minutes then the message would go away but not anymore.
He said he's going to check some more connections on Saturday but I'm not holding my breath. :| Merry Christmas everyone.
 

·
LEGACY VENDOR
Joined
·
2,369 Posts
You said yourself that the old fluid was black & burnt looking? Combine this with the fact that the Trans Failsafe Prog error disappears when the fluid is cold and, well, in my opinion, this is a clear indication that you have a leaking hydraulic activation circuit on at least one of the clutches (probably the A Clutch), which is allowing the clutch to slip when warm as the increased leakage – due to the fluid’s lower viscosity - is enough to prevent the transmission's pump from maintaining sufficient clamp pressure on it. This will require a transmission rebuild to replace the failed seal and most probably the offending clutch will have ‘hot-spotted’ requiring the replacement of its steel & friction plates too.

Phil
 

Attachments

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
211 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Well I got it back yesterday. About 8-10 quarts of fluid has been drained and replaced. Both sensors have also been replaced. The message still comes on.
There are 2 ways the Failsafe code comes on. One is it comes on and everything is normal, shifting smoothly but it wont shift higher than 4th gear. The other way is after the message comes on, the car shakes and it goes and stays in 4th gear(limp mode?) even if you're going 10 mph.
Last night I drove a good 15 minutes going all the way up to 80 mph with no message and then boom stuck in 4th with Failsafe.
I drove around today with the diagnostic tool hooked up so I can get the readings as it acts up. The P0721 (output speed sensor circuit range/perf) comes on when it shakes and gets stuck in 4th gear but not when it only says Failsafe and wont go higher than 4th gear. P1709 (manufacturer contrl transmission) comes on occasionally and so does the engine light.
Also the "Lo" light was blinking at one point put that went away.
Another thing, When I clear the codes when the engine light is on, as soon as the engine light turns off I hear a few clicks from back of the truck :think:
Going to Land Rover tomorrow to have them check it out for $118. I'll probably go to Amacco and an indy shop too for opinions. So far I've spent more than $1000.
 

·
Registered
2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
Joined
·
211 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Oh and I'm probably going to try another "inhibitor switch" incase the one I got from the junk yard was bad too.
 
1 - 20 of 47 Posts
Top