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Discussion Starter #1
Just to keep you guys thinking over the weekend, Monday or Tuesday i'll be handling an installation of new blower pulley, modified air box as well as uprgraded ECU tuned to the new pulley on a RRS S/C
I'll be sure to take some pictures during the install.
Stay tuned....


Erik
 

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Eric,
Pictures are great but what we really want are before/after Dyno graphs.
Can you/will you please supply those for us? Also, any thoughts you might have on the tuning potential and how it might relate to day to day running, fuel economy, etc. would be appreciated. Lastly, will this ECU 'upgrade' be a flash of the existing unit or a completely new one and will it be 'seen' by the LRNA computers when we take our RRS S/C's in for service?
Bish
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thebishman said:
Eric,
Pictures are great but what we really want are before/after Dyno graphs.
Can you/will you please supply those for us? Also, any thoughts you might have on the tuning potential and how it might relate to day to day running, fuel economy, etc. would be appreciated. Lastly, will this ECU 'upgrade' be a flash of the existing unit or a completely new one and will it be 'seen' by the LRNA computers when we take our RRS S/C's in for service?
Bish
As far as dyno charts are concerned, its not going to happen with this vehicle. The owner is one of those guys who just wants something a little different than everyone else. The manufacturer of this system I'm installing claim s HP gains in the +35 area and torque about the same gain.
The software is a flash upgrade, meaning the eprom will not be desoldered from the MB. The maps for this system are of proprietary origin.(i just sounded like a lawyer for a second, lol)
The upgrades are invisible to dealer service.
I have already played with a +1 version of this upgrade, where we portmatched the blower/intercooler/intake and polished the internal of the blower and complete exhaust. This vehicle was put on a rolling road and saw HP gain in the area of +45-50.
For the most part, most of the RRS S/C customers I come a cross are looking for a little more from a standstill to 60. The largest obstacle to overcome is the weight of this vehicle, almost 6K.

Erik
 

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This is very similiar to what is done for Porsche's as well...the only question I would wonder here is does the owner have the ability to revert back to the original settings at any point in time, or is this a permanent modification? Usually, these types of modification should pass "inspection" from the dealer without any trouble...

Is this the same amount of incremental HP that could be gained by changing out the exhaust systems...how do the two alternatives compare price wise?

Thanks...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
PJPR01 said:
This is very similiar to what is done for Porsche's as well...the only question I would wonder here is does the owner have the ability to revert back to the original settings at any point in time, or is this a permanent modification? Usually, these types of modification should pass "inspection" from the dealer without any trouble...

Is this the same amount of incremental HP that could be gained by changing out the exhaust systems...how do the two alternatives compare price wise?

Thanks...
The Porsche cayenne tunning programs differ in quite a few ways. for starter we develope and manufacture all the components including software for them as opposed to just the exhaust on the RR's. Secondly its much easier to get LARGE HP gains from a turbo vehicle vs. the SC RR. PArt of the problem is the ECU.Porsche uses a Bosche control unit which is pretty much the standard in the industry vs. the denso unit found in the RR.(the denso units have a default program mode that almost counteracts performance tuning unless it notices a mechanical change ie more air)
Price wise there is NO comparison. MSRP on our exhaust is 2100.00 plus an hour or two of labor vs. MSRP of almost 5k and 6-8 hours labor. But if you have the scratch, the SC/ECU upgrade coupled with the exhaust will definitely make your RRS S/C stand out in a crowd.

E
 

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Discussion Starter #6
PJPR01,

sorry I only answered half of your question. Assuming the customer wanted to revert to stock, it can be done, but its gonna cost a few bucks.

Erik
 

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As far as dyno charts are concerned, its not going to happen with this vehicle. The owner is one of those guys who just wants something a little different than everyone else. The manufacturer of this system I'm installing claim s HP gains in the +35 area and torque about the same gain.
Erik
I don't think this is a fair response to the question that was asked. Every vehicle I have made performance modifications to were always backed by some qualitative evidence of gain. Any layman or enthsiast you will find on rennlist, sixspeedonline, m3forum, etc. would expect at least a dyno or 1/4 mile run to backup a product/installation.

I am not trying to say anything negative about your work (i'm sure its great) it's very hard to believe that your project cars owner isn't expecting any "proof" of gain beyond whats psychological.

Now put the truck on a dynapack and get back to us so I can give you some business. :wink:
 

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or, you could send me an exact copy of that upgrade kit... hehehe
got a tuner shop with a dynapack not 20 minutes away from me.
 

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I can't believe anyone would spend money on an unproven 'upgrade'. Hell it might actually make it slower. Ever think that the pulley size and blower speed are optimized by the design engineers already? I too am not dogging anyone's work. I just know I would want unbiased reproducible objective data and a dyno is a cheap easy way to do that.
 

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Mikey, you are on the right page here. there are a shop or two out there that are selling an "upgrade package" for around $5k or so (seems to be the number for this model car). one shop claims 75hp gain with no dyno to prove a thing. one shop i talked to, that is still working on an intercooler upgrade(addition)+ecutune+exhaust+pulley will back up his figures with a dyno but most aren't.

i think it's a case of dollars and sense here. the shops that cater to the rich and retarded are charging for upgrades they can't even back up, it's almost depressing how one i know of rips off it's clients. and then there are people who truly will back up there work. my advice would be to hold off on any of these upgrades unless your pocketbook can afford your warranty going null following your engine exploding.

if you do anything to this car, the shop has to at least offer a 1 year extendable warranty. if they dont then they don't stand by their work.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I never said that system has never been dyno'd. What I said was this particular customer has less than ZERO interest in spending a minute of his time dyno testing his vehicle.
The addition of RR performance products has introduced an interesting dynamic to how performance upgrades are normally handled. Our porsche/ferrari/lamborghini customers usually schedule dyno and/track days for their vehicle with a day or two of upgrade installation. So far not one RR customer has even asked about dyno-ing his vehicle. If the customer is satisfied with the upgrades then alls well that end well. If the upgrades are made and the customer isn't happy, the parts come off and a refund will be given(so far thats never happened)

I hope this clears up some issues.

Thanks
Erik
 

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"I hope this clears up some issues"

nope.

you imply that the system has been dyno'd just not this truck.
Please post those dyno sheets.
 

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yeah just because a Jag XJ can go faster with your system doesnt mean a RRS can be really increased.

And to be honest if I was selling a product that increased hP and did the work myself I would as a guarantee free of charge Dyno a customers car to make them see that the product is there.

Its free and cheap advertising. Especially with a copy of Dyno results for the customers own vehicle. if it were me I would give them copies of the results in a nice shiny folder to be kept with the vehicle so the owner can show off the results of the upgrades and make your company look even better. But thats just me.
 

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I agree with everything said above about posting the dyno results. I live in your shop's backyard and would consider these upgrades, but without a dyno sheet no way. Let's see some results..
 

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You could at least fake them, like some of the shady shops around here have been known to do. :? It adds at least 20 HP to the average buyer's placebo effect. 8)
 

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Off topic (~sorta) but how exactly to they dyno a 4-wheel drive vehicle like ours? Its gotta be pretty darn exclusive equipment, no? I always thought that most dynos leave two wheels on the ground, the the other two would be on the rollers.... how accurate would a 4x4 dyno result really be? its not exactly a 25% transfer of power to all 4 wheels, is it?

hmmm....
 

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Ghee, we should just all go about and by TURBONATORS!!!! I think the web site is http://www.turbonator.com ?? something like that. This crap is such a scam...who really believes you can get an extra 20-?? hp out of well a turbonator. I can't believe rangerovers.net even lets them advertise this stuff on the site.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
grommet said:
There are dynos for 4WD/AWD... and yes, they are accurate.
The word "accurate" should be used a little loosely when referning to "rolling road" dyno's. They all use a different "formula" for figuring true BHP! All of the top European (Cargraphic/RSTuning, Manthey, PSI) Tuners only use engine dynos for development of aftermarket components as well as ECU development. Its the only true and accurate way to measure HP!
This thread was not started with the intention of marketing this power kit. Like stated earlier, the system was not designed by us. I am just installing the components in a customers vehicle who already owns a Cargraphic exhaust. I figured this forum of "enthusiasts" would have enjoyed a little inside view od one of these systems being installed as well as some "feedback" of driving impresions. The truth of the matter is its still a HEAVY vehicle, and if the customer wants to try to squeez a few more HP out of it, then so be it! The customer is ALWAYS right!

Erik
 

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grommet said:
The customer is ALWAYS right!

Erik
In this case, your customer is f'ing moron for not expecting a pre and post dyno. I wouldnt exactly call that "right".

Since there is clear interest in the product, please take the time to do a pre and post mod dyno on the next RRS S/C that comes your way... post the results here, and get more customers. I am sure that the few $$$ you spend on the dynos will be well worth it.
 
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