[Shogo]

Suggestions to fasten Copper Break lines ? (And a confession)

My old steel break lines were rusted out and since I´m a weekend mechanic I decided to replace them myself.

Confession:

Made 2 big misstakes that I hope someone else will gain some knowledge from..

1. There are 2 joints where the brakelines enter the engine comparment.. I should have added my copper lines from there.. But by then I already had cut and ripped all the lines out. This was stupid stupid stupid.

2. I should have had help while doing all the pipework. It´s a 2 person job and because of that it looks like crap. The lines are warped and I´m not sure they´ll pass MOT.. but I´ll give it a go to straighten them out.

(atleast I know when I s****d up!

Anyway... The lines are in place, and the breaks are bled and nothing is leaking ! (insert happydance here)

And here comes the QUESTION.

Copper lines become brittle if they vibrate and will eventually break. Therefore they need to be clamped (according to the local authorities) with a 20cm spacing. Most of the original clips broke when trying to remove the old pipes. But I need to add more clips. How should I do this ? I´m not so keen on makeing new holes in the floor. I recall seeing clips with 3M megaadhesive on the back that should stick to anything. But i´m unable to find them online.

Any help would be much appriciated !

 

[Guest]

Re: Suggestions to fasten Copper Break lines ? (And a confession)

Thanks for the info and advice, shogo (and yes we have all 'learned the hard way' with our rigs... !)

Not sure why you do not just replace the broken brake pipe clips, but as for clips with adhesive do you mean AFU3081L ? These are only 6mm & intended for cables, not sure they would stick well enough for pipes though...

 

[Shogo]

Re: Suggestions to fasten Copper Break lines ? (And a confession)

They looked similar to those, but with special 3M adhesive pad on the back that stick to anything (including the "guck" on the car). I´m pretty sure they aren´t cheap but they would solve my clamping issue..

I´ll try and replace all the clips and see how well it´ll go.

 

[scimitargtc]

Re: Suggestions to fasten Copper Break lines ? (And a confession)

I used P clips that self tapped into the chassis rail and as long as they are spaced and not near the exhaust then MOT man should be happy - y not pop down to whoever u use and ask for their advice that way they know what's been done when they test

 

[Shogo]

Re: Suggestions to fasten Copper Break lines ? (And a confession)

I´ll try to use the original clips. I´ve been trying to source these, but I´m unable to find the correct part numbers, could someone please assist ?

It´s the 5 clips that run along the side of the car and 2 clips above the fuel tank that needs replaceing.

 

[Shogo]

Re: Suggestions to fasten Copper Break lines ? (And a confession)

I´ve found these...

Will try to get them from my local dealer
0.00 0 10 ADU6075L 1 CLIP-BRAKE PIPE DOUBLE, 1 HOLE, BOOSTER TO REAR, LHD, 4 WHEEL ANTI-LOCK BRAKING SYSTEM
0.00 0 7 EDP7039L 3 CLIP-BRAKE PIPE DOUBLE, BOOSTER TO REAR, LHD, 4 WHEEL ANTI-LOCK BRAKING SYSTEM
0.00 0 8 NTC9543 2 CLIP - BRAKE PIPE, BOOSTER TO REAR, LHD, 4 WHEEL ANTI-LOCK BRAKING SYSTEM
LAND ROVER 0.00 0 18 AAU7803 2 CLIP-BRAKE PIPE DOUBLE, LHD

 

[bretus]

Re: Suggestions to fasten Copper Break lines ? (And a confession)

Hi
I think you will find that copper brake lines are illegal (in Australia) and dangerous. And suprised any country would allow it.
You can get copper coated steal brake lines which are rated for the correct operating pressure, the copper only lines are not
AS far as securing the lines screw on cable ties are easy to use.

 

[dave3d]

Re: Suggestions to fasten Copper Break lines ? (And a confession)

I have fitted a set of copper brake pipes to my 2000 DSE here in the UK. They are not illegal.
I bought them from Automec who specialise in these brake parts.

We are talking about thick walled 20swg copper tubing here which is made for the job not the thinner 22swg copper tubing.

Many car enthusiasts here fit copper brake pipes. It is very common.

 

[Shogo]

Re: Suggestions to fasten Copper Break lines ? (And a confession)

Copper lines are the only thing that people use to replace break lines over here. Never ever heard of them breaking(lol). Steel lines does not work so well with all the salt they pour out on the roads to fight black ice during winter Copper lines are considered an upgrade and should never be required to be replaced again. But they can in extreme conditions break if they vibrate to much, so they need to be propperly clamped down, especially around the fixings and tight bends. The MOT guys check this on a yearly basis on older vehicles.

What´s the cause that they are considered dangerous ? something with the gravel roads and extreme heat ?

Edit: Did some googeling, apparently australian DIYers did use thin walled copper lines from refrigerators and such on their cars...This is not the same kind of pipe we use over her.. it´s thick walled and much more durable.

 

[bretus]

Re: Suggestions to fasten Copper Break lines ? (And a confession)

Hi
Yes in Australia we do use copper brake lines only on trailers ect.
There have been a few copper brake line failers on veichals fitted with ABS
The copper line used here is the thick wall as used on boat trailers ect.
Dont know why you would use copper lines when copper coated lines are readily available.
The copper coated lines used on boat trailers last just as long as the copper lines
In Australia If you had a vehical with copper lines brake lines that failed and caused an accident you would end up in court for negligence.
But then again we dont salt our roads.Because the weather is usually great here

 

[dave3d]

Re: Suggestions to fasten Copper Break lines ? (And a confession)

Copper coated? You mean just electroplated steel?

When I changed mine, I had a choice of 20swg copper or copper nickel tubing. I went with copper and brass fittings. I also fitted stainless braided hoses. Should outlast the life of the car.

 

[Stevemfr]

Re: Suggestions to fasten Copper Break lines ? (And a confession)

I've always wondered about copper brake lines. My first RRC needed new brake lines a number of years ago and I ordered a set from the UK thinking I'd save some money. I also assumed that the term 'copper' was not meant to be taken literally as most of the German cars I'd worked on for years had cunifer brake lines (copper nickel alloy). Had to send the copper lines back because they are completely illegal in Germany.

Copper is bad because it fatigues much more quickly than most other metals. Very thick copper is only marginally better - especially if not supported properly.

Interesting read - if you want to get geeky on brake lines: http://www.brakequip.com/pdf/ezibend_2.pdf

 

[Jovinblak]

Re: Suggestions to fasten Copper Break lines ? (And a confession)

Replaced my rear lines with copper nickel, certainly the pipe supplied by various outlets including Halfords is generally copper nickel, as are those used by a number of my local Landrover repairers.

cheers John

 

[Shogo]

Re: Suggestions to fasten Copper Break lines ? (And a confession)

I´m very unhappy with my job on this...

tried to feed the tube all the way from the back without joints..Might have worked if someone had assisted in feeding it.. now it´s just crap.. see pics. Most of the issues are in the engine compartment, so **** (I do not like this profanity filter...) cramped behind the engine It´s impossible to straighten the pipes properly..

I´ll be redoing it very soon.

 

[dave3d]

Re: Suggestions to fasten Copper Break lines ? (And a confession)

When I fitted my copper brake pipes I bought a small pipe bending tool. It helped to get smooth bends in the pipe. There is a danger of kinking the pipe if you try and do it by hand. The pipe is nice and soft and malleable when you start but copper work hardens rapidly. I put some U bends in around the master cylinder to minimise stresses.

I also put an extra joint in where it goes over the back axle. It makes the job a lot easier. And as I didn't drop the fuel tank I also encased the pipe in a plastic sleeve to prevent abrasion/vibration.

 

[Shogo]

Re: Suggestions to fasten Copper Break lines ? (And a confession)

Good pointers ! I´ll be sure to have them in mind. Regarding kinking I did some tests and was unable to produce any kind of kink by hand bending, but if one uses tools it´s possible.

It´ll be better the 2nd time around pics will follow.


A bit suprised noone asked questions about the funny thing on the coolant tube. It´s a 1200w(230V) inline engine heater.. saves alot of fuel on chilly days (like..-22c)