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You need a physics lesson, and a basic one at that. I've spent more time with supercharged engines than you can imagine - those who want more power either go with a smaller pulley or bigger blower, period. Either one is guaranteed to deliver more power.
 

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Ukraine Range said:
You need a physics lesson, and a basic one at that. I've spent more time with supercharged engines than you can imagine - those who want more power either go with a smaller pulley or bigger blower, period. Either one is guaranteed to deliver more power.
I believe you may have missed a class on efficiency. :thumb: There IS a point where it is entirely possible to not make any more power if you have pushed past the limits of the intercooler and charger, period. Is that the case in the Sport @ 400hp and the levels of boost it is running? No, I don't believe so, but I imagine it is closer to that limit than most people think (remember the thread where you thought 10 lbs was a lot of boost for only 400hp?).
 

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Flash G said:
A 500hp SUV is a waste of money.
Unless you plan on drag racing every idiot at stoplights, the standard RRS is sufficient.
Right. Thanks for the puerile lesson on excess, "Mr. I-have-3-cars-two-of-which-are-the-same"
I didn't even have to look at your info to know you were posting from PRK.

This thread is funny - all the N/A folks arguing rallying against the F/I guy making his truck faster. *News flash* he can already beat you guys with his factory pulley :lol:

I'll tell you this... I actually looked for a replacement pulley on my truck. Wasn't about to spend $395 on a fancypants "arden" one (or whoever it is that sells them)... but if I could find one in Summit for $20 I'd use it in a heartbeat. We've got all sorts of room to play. The factory tune/build is always very conservative. Also, I bet the factory ECM would handle the A/F adjustments automatically.
 

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@Ukraine Range,

You can’t rely on Boost level to estimate HP. It is all about how much air you get into the engine, and at what cost. The (H)Eaton blower is already at its max efficiency around 11 psi, any increase spinning this roots type blower faster will generate more heat (Boost) so less air density, bigger chance of pre-ignition, and even worse it will cost the engine more power to turn the blower.

So you will probably get some more horses if you spin the blower faster, but it will cost you dearly, and as long as you can’t show any dyno, it is pointless to claim gains. There is a reason why you don’t see dyno slips I guess, do you actually think that no one here or on any other forum has ever tested their car?

I also think that 500 bhp is adequate ;-).

Andre.
 

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And what do you get for the extra 100hp? Getting to the next red light a lot faster (and replacing the brakes a lot faster)?

A RR, like a Jaguar, is a symbol of class and heritage, and transcends beyond mere Teutonic specs & numbers. It needs no apologies. :thumb:

I am very happy with my '06 RR and will keep it for many more years...until maybe the all-aluminum one comes along.
 

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The extra 100 HP makes the car feel a lot lighter, so you wouldn’t have to wait for a aluminum version :D .

There are enough situations where you can enjoy the extra power, why would you think more power will only be used between stop lights :think:

“A RR, like a Jaguar, is a symbol of class and heritage, and transcends beyond mere Teutonic specs & numbers. It needs no apologies. “

Couldn’t agree more, but where would a Jaguar be without the power to move when it needs, like ehhm a Jaguar?
 

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avos said:
The extra 100 HP makes the car feel a lot lighter, so you wouldn’t have to wait for a aluminum version
the aluminum version saves gas, the extra 100hp does not.

avos said:
There are enough situations where you can enjoy the extra power, why would you think more power will only be used between stop lights
obviously you do not live in southern california suburbia. :lol:

avos said:
but where would a Jaguar be without the power to move when it needs, like ehhm a Jaguar?
power isn't everything. the '09 lotus elise has only 189hp but handles like a champ. jags & RR's may not be the fastest or most powerful in their class, but they make you feel special every time you enter them. :thumb:
 

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Ten lbs of boost is a lot for a blower that's probably what, 2L or so? But it's nowhere near its max.

We can argue this till the cows come home, the point is that smaller pulley = more power, and that 500 hp is nice but not necessary because I agree 100% with figaro on what the RR is all about.
 

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@Ukraine Range

The Eaton is about 1.87 Ltr, and is running about 11/11.5 psi. You can get more power by spinning it faster (which I said), but the question is how much(or how little). The higher the pressure the less efficient this eaton type becomes which is common knowledge.

Everyone how they like it, being it 200 or 500 hp :thumb:
 

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Ukraine Range said:
We can argue this till the cows come home, the point is that smaller pulley = more power
*Sigh* Again, that is not always true. I guess I'll have to resort to linking websites. While common knowledge for FI, as avos has also pointed out, this was the second hit I got on google - ironically, you'll notice the title of the page has "Physics 101" in it... :lol:

http://www.thrashercharged.com/L67_htm/intercooler.shtm

4th paragraph copied for convenience:

A common misconception is that more boost is always better. This is true, but only to a certain extent, because superchargers operate most efficiently at a certain speed. To create more boost, blower speed must be increased, more heat is generated, and efficiency suffers. One must understand that high density is what's important, not necessarily high pressure (boost). Compressing air does increase both pressure and density, but the resulting heat generated simultaneously reduces density as well. To achieve optimum performance from a blower, we want to create the most pressure (boost) while adding the least amount of heat, thus achieving the highest air density possible in the intake manifold. As blower speed is increased, at some point the heat created decreases the air density to where addidtional boost is just offset by the increased heat, resulting in no density (and therefore power) gains; further increases in boost may actually even decrease power.

Mooooooooo.
 

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avos said:
@Ukraine Range

The Eaton is about 1.87 Ltr, and is running about 11/11.5 psi. You can get more power by spinning it faster (which I said), but the question is how much(or how little). The higher the pressure the less efficient this eaton type becomes which is common knowledge.

Everyone how they like it, being it 200 or 500 hp :thumb:
So we have an Eaton on the 4.2? Someone told me it was a Lysholm? I guess either way they are both positive displacement (roots) type blowers. If it is a Heaton, and it's 1.87L, then its a variation of the M112, which is what Ford used in their Terminator (just sold mine :( ). This would make sense since Ford owned Jag at the time. That being said, the M112 can take upwards of 16-17 lbs of boost before it starts to get maxed out and it becomes law of diminishing returns. At that point, most people who want more power go to a bigger displacement blower (Whipple, for example). This is why I say there is power left on the table running 10-11 psi stock. Even more if you want to port the blower and get bigger injectors, a bigger heat exchanger, yada, yada, yada...remember, LR has to protect their engines so they go way, way conservative. I bet the stock a/f curve goes pig rich over 4k to keep everything cool when in fact 11.5 start to finish is perfectly fine and actually maximizes efficiency.

And I understand about blower efficiency and overspinning it...I'm saying for THIS specific application there there is more power to be had in the blown 4.2 because its making 400 hp which is NOT a lot for that displacement with a 1.87L roots blower on it @ 10-11 lbs. My 4.6 DOHC with the Eaton M112 (1.8L) blower, a 2.95" pulley and tune was upwards of 520 crank hp, and there was another 20 or so HP but I didn't want to bump the timing any more. That stock Eaton spins at ~12k in stock form, but with my setup it was close to 17k with no drop or diminished performance.

I do agree that a smaller pulley won't ALWAYS result in increased power, BUT...that is only if you're maxed out on the stock setup, which these RRS S/C's are nowhere near.
 

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The old Supercharged engine in my 09 is pretty fast and I'm pretty happy with it. I drive mine pretty hard in the Rockies and my only compliant that it runs out of steam passing over 80 mph. Mine gets only 8 mpg in town and I dread to think that isn't going to get any better with all that horsepower. I am waiting for the diesel. These Turbo Diesels that Mercedes builds are excellent engines with tons of power and hopefully as the price of gas goes up Land Rover will introduce their diesel engines to the US.

Last time I was in England I only saw Range Rovers in London. The biggest SUVs in the country where Jeep Cherokees.
 

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ChipN said:
The old Supercharged engine in my 09 is pretty fast and I'm pretty happy with it. I drive mine pretty hard in the Rockies and my only compliant that it runs out of steam passing over 80 mph. Mine gets only 8 mpg in town and I dread to think that isn't going to get any better with all that horsepower. I am waiting for the diesel. These Turbo Diesels that Mercedes builds are excellent engines with tons of power and hopefully as the price of gas goes up Land Rover will introduce their diesel engines to the US.

Last time I was in England I only saw Range Rovers in London. The biggest SUVs in the country where Jeep Cherokees.
Um, ok.
 

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Ukraine Range said:
I do agree that a smaller pulley won't ALWAYS result in increased power, BUT...that is only if you're maxed out on the stock setup, which these RRS S/C's are nowhere near.
:thumb: Therein lies what we're also saying about the Sport - no one has shown where we're at concerning the stock setup; so making absolute statements such as "smaller pulley = more power" (yes, very likely) and "nowhere near" (maxing out the stock setup) seems counter productive to the purpose of online forums; we just don't want to spread misinformation, especially if it hasn't been shown. :wink:
 

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TripleE said:
Ukraine Range said:
I do agree that a smaller pulley won't ALWAYS result in increased power, BUT...that is only if you're maxed out on the stock setup, which these RRS S/C's are nowhere near.
:thumb: Therein lies what we're also saying about the Sport - no one has shown where we're at concerning the stock setup; so making absolute statements such as "smaller pulley = more power" (yes, very likely) and "nowhere near" (maxing out the stock setup) seems counter productive to the purpose of online forums; we just don't want to spread misinformation, especially if it hasn't been shown. :wink:
Right but a 1.87L roots blower at 11 psi is NOT maxed out, doesn't matter which application.
 

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I didn't say the blower was maxed out; the blower itself it just one variable. The intercoolers are the other major factor. I myself find it very strange that the Sport has been out 4+ years but we haven't seen the dyno graphs.
 

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TripleE said:
I didn't say the blower was maxed out; the blower itself it just one variable. The intercoolers are the other major factor. I myself find it very strange that the Sport has been out 4+ years but we haven't seen the dyno graphs.
I honestly don't think that Intercoolers are a 'major' factor. I would say air, fuel, timing and engine makeup (does it have forged rods, crank, pistons, etc) are your big parts which deserve first priority if increasing boost. Stock intercooler(s) are fine for moderate increases in power. They'll only serve to move a little more fluid around keeping the engine cooler for longer hence delaying heatsoak which is inevitable no matter what. With a bigger intercooler, you may heat soak after 45 mins to an hour, vs 20-30 minutes with the stock piece and some hard driving - but it'll eventually happen to every s/c engine. Could you benefit from bigger intercoolers? Yes. Is it necessary? Not at all.

The engine's forged, the compression ratio is low - the 4.2 is a prime candidate for more power.

As far as dyno graphs, the demographic of a typical buyer doesn't really lend itself much to performance, or at least to the point of changing pulleys and tuning it. I'm sure they're out there, just not that many hence the reason you can't find any info on them. Plus the fact that if anything breaks its 4x as much to fix, so nobody wants to fool around. But I am certain that 450+ hp is safely and rather easily attainable judging by the engine makeup, blower size and stock specs...its just that that person has to have the dough and desire to grab those extra ponies... and that's not me!! :mrgreen:
 

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Ukraine Range said:
But I am certain that 450+ hp is safely and rather easily attainable
I would like to think so also, but I'm still waiting to see it.

The demographic for customers? Heck I'm not concerned with customer graphs, I want to see one from a vendor who's selling the product... :think:
 

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TripleE said:
Ukraine Range said:
But I am certain that 450+ hp is safely and rather easily attainable
I would like to think so also, but I'm still waiting to see it.

The demographic for customers? Heck I'm not concerned with customer graphs, I want to see one from a vendor who's selling the product... :think:
I'd be interested in seeing a package too, from a qualified and knowledgable tuner, but I'd have to guess that there's just no demand for it.

Semi-related question...anyone know what the redline is in this thing? There's no indication on the tach.
 

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Well, Overfinch does offer one such package, called Supercharged Sports Pack. Knowing the company, I am sure the numbers they advertise are not made up (meaning they dynoed the engine), they claim +50bhp and + 70lbft on the 4.2 liter S/C engine, obtained through a combination of "uprated" supercharger, reprogrammed ECU, freer flow cat-back exhaust system and air intake, and speed limiter removal. Also knowing the company, I imagine it costs mega-bucks. http://www.overfinch.com
 
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