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Discussion Starter #1
As you may know i've been having lots of handling troubles over the last few months. Car has been an absolute pig to drive. I tried everything. Have all new suspension bushes, shocks, and just got a new set of General Grabber AT2's in 18's. Still had lots of trouble and very tiring to drive.

Now I had checked using the lift one wheel method and tried to rotate, it appeared that the viscous was OK. It finally occurred to me that it could be the coupling after all.

Symptoms were:
- Heavy Steering
- Car Wandering badly
- Veering under brakes
- After every alignment, car was perfect for half an hour

So I went to take the front driveshaft out only to find that the Bastards who did the gearbox had rounded off the bolts :evil: :evil: . Today I finally had a chance to get the dremel and cold chisel out. I got the front driveshaft out and went for a drive.

:dance: WOW :dance: !!! What a difference, the car now goes straight down the road, turns corners with the flick of a finger, and is a lot quieter. I also tried to turn the front output of the transfer box. It didn't turn at all.

So i've contacted a few people in the hope of aquiring a second handy until I get mine rebuilt. I think it should be ok as long as I don't drive to hard :twisted:

Stu
 

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Thats good you can at least drive it now. I recently had mine aligned and noticed it drives a lot better, but the steering wheel needs to be turned a bit to the right to keep it straight now :?. While doing the pinion seal on my front differential, I noticed the shop I took it to also rounded the bolts while I was disconnecting the drive shaft :evil: . I don't think I'll be taking my rover there again, seeing as how they took apart the drive shafts trying to find a grinding noise coming from the transmission. I told them to do a fluid flush and filter change after they had the whole thing apart. Ended up paying for $350 worth of labor because of their false diagnosis. Now I realize they are not "rover specialists" they just aren't afraid of working on them. Sorry, bit of a rant :D .
 

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Discussion Starter #3
AARRRRRGGHHH!!! I'm going to kill something :x :x :x

It's back. The car is wandering over the road again, just like before with the old tyres. I still have the front propshaft out.

Problems:
- Car seems to veer over the road, completely random, always requiring little corrections.
- Seem to want to veer right most of the time.
- EAS seems to do strange things such as: dancing at the lights, nose dives then relevels after heavy breaking, always seems fidgety.

What has been done:
- Front Radius arm bushes
- Front Anti Roll bar bushes
- Front and Rear Panhard rod bushes
- Steering damper
- X4 New shocks
- 2 New rear height sensors
- 1 new front sensor and swapped sides
- New valve block and compressor 2 years ago
- 2 Front Airbags (2 years old)
- 2 Rear airbags (6months old)
- Several Alignments, last one (landrover specialist) gave slight tow out because of the 18inch Alloys.
- Four new GG AT2 Tyres

What else should I do!

Stu
 

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Just out of curiousity ... how big are these general grabbers?
 

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2006-2009 Range Rover Sport
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Stu,
EAS doing strange things?
Only one new front height sensor?
Have you thought that maybe you still have one dodgy front height sensor.
If it is playing up while you are driving, that would account for the erratic wandering.
It may just be the root cause of your problems.

P.S. Also check that the front sensors have the heat shields to the exhaust still intact.

Cheers,
Keijo
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Front driveshaft has been removed because the coupling is seized. There was a rapid improvement, but then it came back. I swapped the Sensors left to right before installing a new one. Besides car has similar behaviour with the EAS disconnected.

Tyres are standard size.

Stu
 

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2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Have you checked the steering ball joints? As you've set the alignment so close to the zero (and now en excess), it will take very little movement in a steering linkage to cause a problem.

I've got a very similar issue at the moment BTW. I've just not had time to get stuck into it.

One other thing - how about play in the upper and lower hub ball joints? Are you getting strange wear patterns on the front tyres, such as on the edges and/or one side, not the other?
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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e thinks.... Im good at doing that.. Best place to start off, recheck and make sure ALL suspension bolts are tight, if you like loosen and retighten, theres not that many.

front sensor you havnt changed will be the mani reason for the up and down, think about it, if one has gone then the other will follow shortly, either replace or remove, strip and clean if you know how, check valves within Valve block are another problem area, I now use thicker o rings there and it works well

It may ebn be a bad earth connection somewhere.....
 

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Discussion Starter #11
As I said previously the Viscous was already seized. Driving without the front shaft in wouldn't be advisable on a good viscous, but mine is seized so can't seize it any more. So as long as I drive gently, I can't see any problem.

EAS is also disconnected, so this can't be affecting the wandering.

Ball joints appear fine, no movement either way.

I was just under the car with a jimmy bar and noticed the radius arm bushes look stuffed. See pics



These were replaced only 12months ago, but looked trashed, Do you agree? Maybe the viscous has caused this because of the wind-up in the drivetrain. I also had a problem in that the ABS would be very sensitive over slight bumps, but this has dissappeared since removing the front shaft.

Thoughts????

Stu
 

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couple of observations: :think:

* Given that you have the front propshaft removed, the vehicle is RWD. (bl***y obvious I know :oops: )

* For RWD vehicles, Toe-OUT renders the steering inherently unstable ... that's why all RWDs are either neutral or (more usually) toe-in.

The toe setting on a particular car becomes a tradeoff between the straight-line stability afforded by toe-in and the quick steering response promoted by toe-out. Nobody wants their street car to constantly wander over tar strips-the never-ending steering corrections required would drive anyone batty. But racers are willing to sacrifice a bit of stability on the straightaway for a sharper turn-in to the corners. So street cars are generally set up with toe-in, while race cars are often set up with toe-out.
see http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

* Front wheel drives on the other hand ...like the early mini coopers /Morris/Austin 1100/1800 all had about 1/16" toe out
When driving torque is applied to the wheels, they pull themselves forward and try to create toe-in.
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

My first port of call would be to drop in on the wheel alignment bloke and tell him he got it wrong and that having 18s has squat to do with it going "toe out" and get him to ensure that the wheels are exactly parallel... see how you go! There may be other issues but at least this action will discount one of the major influences on eratic steering

PLEASE let us know how you went...good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #15
how do I know if tghe transfer case is seized?
If you go to http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk ... 6.html#pa1 it tells you the official test for the Viscous coupling. The other more simple test is to lift one wheel and try and rotate it (transmission and transfer in neutral, handbrake on). If it moves slowly it is ok. In my case it moved but incredibly slowly, I had to have the wheel brace on a nut, with a bar on the end. When I removed the driveshaft I couldn't turn the front output at all.

Did the jimmy bar show any excess movement/play?
Yes, with the jimmy bar i can flex the arms all the way. Not sure how soft and rubbery they should be, but in my book there is too much movement and they look wrecked. Just concerned as to why they are chewed out already. Only thing I can put it down too is the seized viscous was causing massive for/aft twisting on the bushes and chewed them out.

My first port of call would be to drop in on the wheel alignment bloke and tell him he got it wrong and that having 18s has squat to do with it going "toe out" and get him to ensure that the wheels are exactly parallel... see how you go! There may be other issues but at least this action will discount one of the major influences on eratic steering
Was thinking, why the hell would 18inch alloys make a difference to the alignment, but that is what they said they have found in there experience of other P38's. They were saying that all the 16" rims are fine but for some reason with 18's it is really hard too get the correct alignment. Will wind it in a touch, as I don't know when my transfer case is coming.

Stu
 

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JaguarS4R said:
(flame suit on) how do I put the transfer car in Neutral? Does that mean in the middle of the H-Gate?

G'day Jaguar.
Page 122 of your owners manual emergency towing :

With the starter key removed insert a fuse 5 amps or greater into fuse position No 11 in the RHS seat fuse box.
Insert Key and turn the starter switch on the transfer box will automatically select neutral (wait until the message centre displays TRANSFER NEUTRAL") then turn the starter switch off?
 

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2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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If you are getting that much movement, change them.

Two questions though. Where did you source them and did you use the LR tool for inserting them?
 

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I read on a Porsche forum about some models having a maxim rims size, as bigger rims would affect something, i dont remember wha, had something to do with alignment. I know, very helpful. In theories it shouldn't matter.

if youe VC is seized, why dont you drive it hard, maybe unseize it? I'm assuming the plates fused together.

mine does the same quirky things yours does, i thought it was just the way rovers drive.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
They were genuine Landrover bushes, as it is very hard to get after market ones for the P38 here. I put them in a lathe and put the lightest of champher on one edge of the plastic as a lead in, This part is fine, it appears that the rubber has torn off the internal metal tube. Then used a hydraulic press to push them in. I'm just concerned as to why they are chewed out already. On Tuesday I will take the arms down to AMV and have them push new ones in properly.

Stu
 
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