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Discussion Starter #22
Check out the video. Does the noise sound like coming from the transmission or engine oil pan? I might have to go under while someone is keeping the engine running to pinpoint. If TC is bad, as long as transmission is in neutral, there should be not that much noise?
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I am no TC engineer and I have been watching a few youtube videos trying to understand how TC works.
If the turbine and the impeller are all smashed up and lock together, even if the transmission is in neutral, would the engine get dragged down and die if the impeller is rotating with the turbine (therefore driving the gears inside the tranny to rotate too)??

Years ago, my transmission in my 2001 honda odyssey died and it somehow locked up the engine. The shop removed the transmission and the TC and the engine was free.

This is beyond me. Appreciate if any expert can chime in.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
The shop pulled the transmission out and here is the look of the flexplate:

2020-01-29.jpg


Here is the close up:

2020-01-29 (1).jpg


He is about to remove the flexplate to see what the caked mud is and where it is coming from.
He said coolant from freeze plugs.... but will see. What do you guys think?
 

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Discussion Starter #26
There is a cover + gasket under the flexplate. The gasket is leaking coolant. These **** stupid BMW engines have so many leaks. German fine engineering?

2020-01-29 (2).jpg


The shop will hopefully finish putting in the tranny and I will know if the rover will run.
 

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Sounds to
I am in USA. I bought a 2005 RR L322 off Copart auction for cheap. It was $375 but with the broker fee, copart fee, all kinds of fees, it ended up $1436. It has 125K mileage on it. It has a BMW M62 4.4L engine with a 5HP24 transmission as you all know.
So, troubleshooting began. There is no check engine light on dash or scanned (using a Launch X431) on the engine and transmission modules. Then I noticed that the starter was removed and in the trunk. I tested the starter. It was spinning. Then I tried to hand-crank the engine after removing the fan clutch (special tool but cheap but still was not easy but I did it). Engine did not turn. Conclusion was that they removed the starter and found it working and concluded the engine has seized and stopped there. Then I removed the spark plugs (and spraying WD40 which might not have helped) and wiggled the crankshaft back and forth by brutal force and eventually got it free. (However, I did notice a lot of metal cracking noise from either engine or transmission or torque converter.) After a few dozens turn by hand cranking and engine finally turns freely (clockwise). Then I put back all spark plugs and the starter (****, that was tight space there, the shield did not help either), I was available to start the engine but I continued to hear metal cracking noise randomly. At that time, I was able to shift to D and R. The car moved. I did not take it out for a drive around thou. I did notice when I shifted, the engine speed dropped down a lot and sometimes died. Also, I continued to hear metal noise while I revved up the engine.
Next day, I decided to change the engine oil and transmission filter + oil because I wanted to see if there is any metal pieces or shaving in the pans. Engine oil was black anyway. No shaving in the engine oil pan. But there is quite a lot of metal shavings on the magnets and around in the transmission pan:

View attachment 283385

Moving on, I put everything back and started the engine. Oil changes did not help and I continued to hear metal cracking noise and now the engine seems to die because of something in the torque converter dragging it or locking it up. Whole time there was no CEL. Not knowing what I could do next, I have stopped here.

I have a feeling the torque converter has broken fins on its turbine and initially locked up the engine. I, by brutal force, broke it free and the loose pieces continued to damage inside while I revved up the engine, to the extent that now the engine could not keep idling and has still a lot of metal cracking noise when I run it. What should I do next? The metal shavings (or pieces) should have gone into the transmission by now and the torque converter need to be replaced and the transmission needs to be rebuilt or replaced?
I am a DIYer and quite equipped and enjoy bringing this car back to life. If this is kept under $1500 USD, it might still be worth it. Afterall, the engine has a lot of oil leaks. I believe the valve cover gasket, PCV, chain guide cover gasket and God knows what still need to be repaired after this.

Or just sell the car for parts?
sounds to me like you have an interferance issue , this has to do with timing OR someone dropped something into the engine and that may be the noise you are hearing.. i lean more towards interference. Idoubt its the torque converter of which its main purpose is the transfer of engine power smoothly to the transmission .
my advise to you before you start it again is to put the engine in TDC mode and align the cams to check your timing .Get that out of the way before starting it again.. once you know the timing is ok then you cn proceed to find out what is loose inside.Then t=again if the iming was off you would get codes....
 

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Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
Right. It does sound like engine.
But according to the history of how the problem developed, I took a chance and assumed that it is the TC as the cause.
When the bearings(?) inside the TC is worn out, the impeller and the turbine will touch and all the fins will eventually smash up (hence the noise). So, a bad TC will either not drive the transmission or, in my case, lock up and drive the transmission even at idle. I believe the metal debris also went into the transmission as shown with the large metal shavings in the pan, killing the transmission too.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Reporting back.
The RR is running fine. Yay!
It is the TC.

2020-02-01.jpg


And he could not even get the TC out of the transmission:

2020-01-29 (3).jpg


And we could not turn the TC by hand no matter when gear the transmission is in.

Now the RR runs and the replacement transmission shifts perfectly.
I had to pay him couple hundred $ because he has to replace those coolant gaskets, rear seal, and go pick up the transmission from freight company for me.

Total cost $500 + $800 = $1300.

I might still have to look at some oil leaks - valve cover gaskets, PCV stuff, chain guides, etc...
Then hopefully this RR will last for a while.
 

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Since you have it apart, clean or replace the transmission cooler that's located at the bottom of the radiator. Maybe even clean out the radiator too. The lower section cools the tranny and it's where a lot of crap can settle. Keeping the tranny as cool as can be will prolong her life
 

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Discussion Starter #31 (Edited)
Right. Good idea. Metal debris might be in the cooler.

Would be nice to know how the ATF circulates. Does it get picked up by the pump thru the filter from the bottom of the pan, then and immediately shoot out to the cooler, come back and go into the transmission to lubricate all gears? What about the TC? This info might help when doing a flush by disconnecting a hose between the cooler and the transmission.
 

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The red arrows show the tranny fluid flow. The blue show the coolant flow.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
So, if the filter is doing its job, there should not be any (or larger?) metal shavings or debris circulating around or into the cooler?
 

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Discussion Starter #34
**** it. Good for 2 days and now the engine randomly could not crank. No P or N on the dash. I don't see much about this when I searched. I will start a new thread.
 

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lol sorry to laugh but I think you caught the landroverism virus. Check the inhibitor switch itself or its connection. I am sure you've messed with it disconnecting and reconnecting the tranny. Btw when the tranny oil cooler blockage is mentioned, it refers to restricted coolant flow or coolant related issue, not debris in tranny oil.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
It is the connector of the inhibitor switch on top of the bell housing. I guess when they had the car on the lift, it was not easy to access because you have to get to it from the top.
The switch pins (L1, L2, L3, L4) all tested good while I was at it.
RR is running. yay (for now.)
I will watch the transmission oil temp using torque pro.
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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You should have just replaced the cooler, cheap insurance. Hoping that nothing got into it is good in theory, bad in Rover ownership.....
 

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While it warms my heart to see another early L322 saved, big kudos to you for doing so and not parting it out, you must go with an OEM Behr transmission oil cooler. Don't spring for the cheap $35 aftermarket part. You can purchase the OEM cooler from AutoHausAZ.com for $83.

Get yourself some new o-rings too. 20mm OD, 13mm ID, 3.5mm thickness nitrile o-rings.

I just made a video on the transmission oil cooler and some issues you might run into so check it out below:

 

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Discussion Starter #40
Now I have P0135 and P0128 so smog check has to wait.
I have cleared the codes and restart the emission drive cycle. Hope I can at least get the smog check passed so that I can get the license plate.
New thermostat, coolant temperature sensor, and transmission cooler are on the way to me from Amazon.
 
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