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Discussion Starter #1
Just took my car in for lean codes CEL coming and going and power loss. The dealership is saying it's fuel injectors and that they can clean them for $1500 or replace for $3200 ( not happening with my budget). So my question is, is that ok to get this done from an Indy. I'm basically illiterate about cars so I don't know if it's a complicated job that should be done at the dealership or I can get it done elsewhere. Please advise the best course of action. Thanks in advance !!
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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I've have driven many fragile cars past the 74,000 mile mark without any fuel injector issues. In fact, I have never replaced an injector or paid for a "cleaning". I just always buy Shell or Chevron gas, and run some Seafoam or Techron through the tank every month or two for good measure.

Do you buy high quality gas? As far as an answer to your question, I see no reason why an indy mechanic would be unable to perform a cleaning.

I recommend trying the cheap solutions that have kept my cars problem free before spending anywhere near $1,500 on a cleaning. Try running a few tanks of Shell V-Power or Chevron (if that's available in NY) and add a high concentration of Seafoam to it.
 

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Yeah, that's the Long Term, which is useful, but far more useful with the sub-feedback too.

The subfeedback is the offset that the downstream sensors place on the upstream, which gives a lot more information as to exactly what is going on.

With just seeing the upstream, I would be leaning towards a MAFS, and/or possibly a tune up, however to give a better idea of what's going on, I need to see the sub-feedback. They can pull that from the same session, which is what is best, as opposed to from a new session(diagnostic sessions, they will know what you mean, each time you pull the trims, they are logged and time-stamped, and can be retrieved later)

With you being just as lean at idle as you are at WOT, you are not looking at injectors. Did you ask them how they determined that 3 were clogged? - info from a PM
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I did not ask how they arrived at that conclusion. Infact when I asked the guy what's wrong with the injectors he was taken a back for a few seconds like he didn't expect that question and then said they are badly clogged. I asked him have they eliminated vacuum leak he said yes we smoked the car and also checked for exhaust leaks and found none. I'll call and ask them for the subfeed now. And post it
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Just spoke to the dealership. The lady said she'll have to get that sub feedback for me from the technician tomorrow. Will post soon as I get it. Thanks
 

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2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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I have a MAF sitting here if that turns out to be your issue, happy to let you try it before shelling out dealer pricing :)
 

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2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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OP the only thing getting cleaned out and replaced is the cash in your wallet.
Follow Dave`s advice he is a sharp mechanic.
I would also suggest that you add a bottle and a half of Techron to the fuel and do lots of short rides so the cleaner has time to work.
Always use premium fuel from a premium station
NOTE is may take a few tanks of this mix to clean out the intake and the injectors
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thank you Mrmerlin !! Dave has been extremely helpful I'm following his directions. Waiting for the sub-feedback so he can make a more educated recommendation. But thanks for your comment.
 

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You're in need of a full tune up, the lean codes are being caused by incomplete combustion, at least mostly.

The sub-feedback being rich at WOT and long term being lean, mean that you are not burning all of the fuel, or air, that is going into the exhaust, which causes upstream to read lean, and the fuel then oxidizes in the cats, causing the downstream to be rich.

This usually does not cause the long term to read lean at idle, which is usually due to a vacuum leak(when only at idle) however, if the plugs are oil fouled(due to a failed PCV valve) then it easily can cause incomplete combustion at idle as well.

I would start with a full tune up, being properly performed fuel injection and induction cleaning services, then replacement of the PCV valve, spark plugs, ignition capacitor, along with air filter if needed. Finish it off with a fresh oil change, and you should be good.

There is also a chance you are looking at more than one issue, one being lean at high load, and another causing lean at lower loads, but there isn't much aside from incomplete combustion(which is almost always due to insufficient ignition on this motor) that will give you the combination of lean/rich at high load for long term/subfeedback.

Without seeing the vehicle, the one thing I can tell you is that rich subfeedback trims at WOT really cannot be attributed to clogged injectors, at least without also having plugged cats.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks Dave. I must also tell you that I drive about a 100 - 150 miles a day on average (long commute plus my marketing job requires numerous short trips once there) and I've been driving the car around for a good couple of months or about 6 - 7K miles with those lean codes. I have suspected the cats as being bad with my little knowledge as I feel hot air coming up from underneath the driver side when I open the door (nothing on passenger side). In any event I'm going to follow your recommended course of action and take the car out of the dealership and do a tune up with my Indy. And the other stuff you recommended. How do we check for Cats ??
 

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Don't worry about the cats, they would throw faults if they weren't working that well, and even if there were faults, I would be attributing that to burning oil, causing them to be contaminated.

I would get the tune up done, and make sure there isn't a leak at the intake tube(causing an unmetered air leak), which will be reseated during the repair. Drive it, and see what happens. Again, with as lean as it is across the board, there might be something else going on(MAFS, unmetered air, software...) but the big thing right now is the incomplete combustion.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Got it. I'll start there and also my Indy when he ran the codes told me that I have a weak battery as well ( which I believe I prob do since I had left the headlights on over night til the next afternoon couple of months ago but it started up without hesitation) so I'm thinking I should Change that first also. I get a suspension fault code for 5 secs when going uphill or when holding down the gas pedal for a prolonged period and check side light / front light. Thanks again Dave. I'll keep you posted to the developments.

Any idea about pricing how much would the tune up, air filter, induction and injector cleaning run me approx?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Ok so update. I had a tune up done at my Indy. He changed all the spark plugs and said two of the ignition coils looked like they could be replaced so we did that. Changed the PCV valve and the Air Filter and got an oil change (synthetic). Reset the codes. Took the car for a drive. Significant power gain and it was driving really good for about 25 miles. Stopped and parked for a couple of hours and CEL came back on after about 5mins after restarting . My mechanic strongly advised me against doing any injection/induction cleaning. He said he really does not think that's the issue. Going to go tomorrow and run the codes again and see what it is. The car is still running ok. Slightly heavier maybe but that can just be psychological on my part. Fingers crossed.
 
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