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2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Discussion Starter #1
I've hung out in this forum from time to time. I wish I registered in a happier situation.

A week ago, the engine stopped suddenly after proceeding from a stop sign. It was early in the morning, well below freezing temperatures. Supercharged engine, with about 120,000 miles.

It would crank, but no fire. Towed to my mechanic.

"Bad news..."
"Starter OK."
"Pull with everything on the crank nut, can't get it to budge."
"Engine is seized."
"No obvious oil leak. Needed some oil, but not a significant amount."
"New one $18,000; found used ones with varying miles/warranties from $7,000 up."
"Let me know what you want to do."

:|

I don't have much knowledge in this area, and I'm asking you all for your thoughts on what my options are.

Theoretically, it's worth $24,000-ish in good condition. I bought this used three years ago and owe $18,000. Vehicle is in otherwise great shape; well-maintained; Autobiography Edition.

Specific Questions:


  1. Should I get a second-opinion, or is this something that's a straight-forward diagnosis?
  2. Does seized engine always mean "start looking for a new engine"?
  3. Is removing/rebuilding my engine a possible option?
  4. Has anyone else been through the process of finding/installing a replacement engine?
Thank you!
 

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2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Did the engine just stop all of a sudden (like something broke), or did it stall and allow you to coast to the side of the road?

2010 SC with 120K miles. Has the timing chains and guides been replaced? If not that may be your answer. The 2010 to 2012 5.0L are notorious for having excessive wear on the timing chains and guides leading eventually to an engine failure if not addressed. Was the engine making any kind of valve train noise prior to this event, if so you may have lost one or both timing chains resulting in the pistons hitting the valves and a loss of the engine. When you say the engine would crank, that means to most people it would be turning over while the starter was engaged, not just making a clunk noise when the starter engages the flywheel and then can't spin the engine because its stuck.

Also when you say you had the truck towed to the mechanic, do you mean towed, or flatbedded? If it was towed on the rear wheels (without a dolly), did they know how to put the transfer case in the neutral position, otherwise the trans may have been damaged depending on how far it was towed.

Need more info on exactly what happened before anyone can even guess at whats up, but if its is actually seized then yes thats going to require a new engine 99.9% of the time, theres no parts available for rebuilding a 5.0L engine at this time.
 

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2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Discussion Starter #4
“If your would crank, how can it be seized?“

Can the starter turn (with difficulty) without turning over the engine?
 

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2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Discussion Starter #7
It was more of a stall, then a coast to the side of the road. Actually, it stalled, coasted to the side of the country road. It started up again after a few tries, I made it another 1/4 mile down the road, it stalled again, and would not restart.

I don't believe the timing chains/guides have been replaced. I purchased it from a Land Rover dealer with about 70,000 miles. I don't remember hearing any noticeably different noises prior to the stall. [Edit: It's possible I missed a noise. I do listen to music on my way to work.]

It's the "Rrr, Rrr, Rrr, Rrr, rrrr..." noise when I pushed the start button.

The 2nd time it stopped, it was fairly close to a small driveway into a field, so I put it in neutral and pushed it 30 meters into the driveway. A flatbed came and picked it up that afternoon.
 

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I'm very confused as to what you're talking about... if the engine didn't seize this sounds like maybe the fuel pump died or the filter sucked up a bunch of junk.
 

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So again, if it is cranking... "It would crank, but no fire.".... why is your "mechanic" saying it is seized? Obviously if it would crank it is not seized. If it were seized it would not crank.

Your starter is obviously working because you report "but no fire"...
"Rrr, Rrr, Rrr, Rrr, rrrr..." if the engine were seized you would get a big click from your starter engaging but not being able to crank.

Why are you asking "Does seized engine always mean "start looking for a new engine" when it is not seized?

So if it just stalled and you could coast, the transmission and drive train are fine. You either have fuel issue or an ignition issue. When it has been sitting, can you hear the fuel pump when you try to start it? If not you may have a failed pump. Next step would be to turn on the Rover without starting and check fuel pressure at the rail. There should be Schrader valve on the fuel rail on top of the engine. Looks like a tire valve that you check tire pressure on. If no pressure the you either have failed pump or a plugged filter/tank cap assembly.

EDIT: yea what Brad said while I was typing.
:mrgreen:

Really, this is not a huge issue, your engine is not seized dead or otherwise needing replacement. The ignition system is the next thing to check after fuel... do you have spark?
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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I’m waiting for someone else to say, “maybe it’s time to find a new mechanic.”
Since no one else will say it, I will. Oh wait! I just did.
You need a second opinion that can actually lay their hands on it and fix it.


Sent from my iPhone X
 

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2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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I agree with LuisC, sounds like your mechanic is clueless. If you don't have a GOOD independent Land Rover mechanic (as in NOT the dealership) in your area, you might consider getting a code reader so you can check the ECM yourself for thrown codes. With my 2004 I got off cheap, $27 for PA Soft 1.4.
 

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2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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One should NOT attempt to manually "turn over" a 5.0 motor using the crank bolt.

The correct way to manually check to see if the crank/motor turns freely is to remove the starter motor and apply force (using a prybar etc) directly to the ring gear and lever that against the gearbox's housing to thus "rotate" the flywheel.

Of course, this is far easier to do if the coil packs and spark plugs are removed.

It's not entirely clear to me whether the starter is turning normally (cranking) the motor but it's not firing/running or whether the starter is turning at a less than normal rate.

Is the battery fully charged?

If the starter IS cranking the engine normally but the engine fails to run, you need to have someone pull the stored onboard fault codes using a JLR based diagnostic tool (or at the very least an OBD II scan tool for more generic data).

The ignition needs to be "on" (position 2) for the scan tool to access the logged data in the CJB.

Make sure all the codes are read before being erased.

Rob
 

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2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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It is possible for an engine to be seized and still turn over with the starter (although that doesn't sound like the issue here) I broke a crank in 2 places and the cam in 3 on a small block chevy once (twice actually in 2 different vehicles). Starter would turn, as would pistons 7 and 8 but the rest wouldn't. It was a little more obvious though with the fist sized hole in the block where some internal parts became external. Sounds more like something external to the engine has happened, like a fuel pump, maybe a broken supercharger belt. Need to get the codes out of the ECM as the first thing to do, then look into more horrible options later. If the engine really does spin on the starter, don't keep cranking it over and over trying to start it, you will wash down the cylinders with gas and put a lot of wear on your cylinder walls and rings.
 

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Sounds like the OP is 18K deep in a loan on the truck now, so there may not be any choice other than to replace the engine, if the engine is really done. That's a ton of money to walk away from and as you've said no one will touch a RR with a blown engine, unless its for pennies on the dollar, certainly way below 8 to 10K. I mean we're looking at 10 to 12K for a used complete SC engine that probably needs a couple of grand of work to put need chains, gears and guide in, plus removal and installation. There's almost no residual value left in the truck at that point. We will have to wait and see what the results are.
 

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2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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I'm very confused as to what you're talking about... if the engine didn't seize this sounds like maybe the fuel pump died or the filter sucked up a bunch of junk.
2 weeks ago mine did similiar things i was just out of gas after trying 3 times to start the engine, battery was gone. Fuel gauge is really erratic i cleaned fuel tank and sender units 40k km ago, must do it again I believe
 

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a rover tech was saying its unlikely for a motor to go poof from tensioners/timing chain without the warning lights coming on the dash - is that accurate?
 

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2 weeks ago mine did similiar things i was just out of gas after trying 3 times to start the engine, battery was gone. Fuel gauge is really erratic i cleaned fuel tank and sender units 40k km ago, must do it again I believe
When you're low on gas, the pump is working extra hard and that filter is tired is the perfect recipe for issues.
 

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2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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2 weeks ago mine did similiar things i was just out of gas after trying 3 times to start the engine, battery was gone. Fuel gauge is really erratic i cleaned fuel tank and sender units 40k km ago, must do it again I believe
Apparently, you get a Crankshaft Position Error. I'm assuming this displays a Check Engine Light.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
OP HERE.

You all have been beyond helpful. My takeaways:

1) Get a 2nd opinion.
2) It's highly suspect that an engine that would RRr Rrr rrr before going to the mechanic would be seized at the mechanic.
3) There are a host of other issues mentioned to use in a differential diagnosis.
4) If the engine is seized, my best of only bad options is to replace the engine and try to unload it to minimize my losses.

As to #4, any advice regarding finding the cheapest replacement engine, vs. finding a replacement superior to the age of the rest of the vehicle, and using that as a selling point? That is, could spending $5,000 more on an engine ever translate to a $5,000 higher selling price?

Thank you all for your help!
 

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No, with a replaced engine you're going to be lucky to get 10k period. The car isn't worth much as is and when the next buyer runs a car fax that'll be a huge red flag for the normal buyer. Maybe you luck out and find an enthusiast/mechanic to buy it but it won't be at a premium.
 
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