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Discussion Starter #1
Looking at some issues on the air suspension, why or why not use the replacement coil springs instead of the air bags.

Steve
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Air suspension is the way to go, multiple levels of adjustment and a nice ride. It's original equipment..And it's EASY to work on once you understand it! There is a lot of info regarding the EAS system on this site use search. Between Dennis at Rover Renovations and myself you can buy any part you need...

Scotty
 

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I think I might go and get some popcorn :clap: ! This could be a long thread!
 

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Seriously,

There was a time when the Air Suspension on these cars was expensive to fix. If you go to a main dealer or even some indy's it still is. I would guess that up till about 2004 air suspension was incredibly expensive, which could justify the switch to coils.

However, now it is completely different with sources of information and parts such as Rover Renovations and this site, things are now really cheap. Ten years ago it would cost upwards of $1400 to fix a faulty valve block, nowadays it can be done yourself for as little as $50, providing you do it yourself.

Its entirely your decision either way and IMHO that on a well maintained car, EAS is the way to go. If you have your car serviced at the dealer and are not prepared to get your hands dirty, coils will save you money in the long term, but won't get you the ride quality.

Stu
 

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I fully agree,
I was in two minds when my RR was sagging overnight.

A set of o-rings for the valve block and 1 1/2 hrs fitting them and all is working as it should.

Have replaced all air bags which is a very easy DIY job and while i was at it changed the air lines (Didn't really need doing but i had the line just in case so thought what the hell)

Have also changed the air compressor which again is a quick easy job.

Hell that's the whole system!!!

and still cheaper than switching to coils.
 

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2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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I've fitted an AB coil spring kit to a p38 last year and took it for road test. The owner was over the moon with it, but it didn't ride as smoothly as a fully working EAS vehicle. It also sat at a height that I (personally) wouldn't be pleased with.
 

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Rich998a said:
I've fitted an AB coil spring kit to a p38 last year and took it for road test. The owner was over the moon with it, but it didn't ride as smoothly as a fully working EAS vehicle. It also sat at a height that I (personally) wouldn't be pleased with.
Rich, could you comment a little further ? What type of AB springs (Standard or 2" lift HD) ? what shocks you used ? I'm interested because when I bought my Rangie it already came with Standard AB coils, and it was awful. I swapped to AB HD + bilsteins, and it's better (ie: no bottoming out) but the ride is harsh. I always wondered if the standard coils where faulty, or badly fitted, or perhaps weren't a good mate to the OEM shocks. I find that the HD coils are to tall for me. If only I could lower it an inch I'd be happy.

N.
 

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2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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IIRC, the kit was sold through BritPart but the box contained written instructions with AB's address at the bottom. I think the box may have been marked as well.

It certainly wasn't a lifted kit, and the dampers I left on were OEM or Genuine Part. Bushes were probably all original. I just found the rear (especially) was harsh, and the ride height was a compromise somewhere between 'Normal' and 'Highway'. I tend to run mine at 'Normal' all the time so I found the height a little low.

As I say though, the customer was chuffed to bits with the kit.

I've just rebuilt the rest of my EAS (OEM front springs, 4 x Genuine height sensors, compressor, and full T4 calibration) and I discovered that the front near side had never been calibrated correctly, so there was a slight lean. Tyre worn on outside, constantly being pulled into the near side, and the GENII airspring on that side was damaged at the crimp as a result. I also discovered that the Genuine Part rear sensor brackets aren't always manufactured correctly - Thanks to Offroadbaz's post recently with the Island-4x4 kit laid out on the table, and a call to AllyV8 told me it was wrong.

Anyway, after all that the ride has been transformed and even with polybushes, the ride is both comfortable and the car no longer tracks off to the left.

What I'm trying to say, is that the EAS is made up of many parts, either one could cause an annoying suspension or steering trait, but when fixed the car will ride better than any coil conversion.
 

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I'd be interested to know what people think about this when a 2 - 3 inch lift is in the question, and off-roading is the primary use. I know that Jsmooth has a great thread about his EAS transformation project, but I'm still curious as to what other people might suggest, as I feel as though Jsmooth is one in a crowd of many
 

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2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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I think so many people have see the coils vs EAS that they know not to get involved. :shhh:

I think Land Rover spent a fortune developing the suspension on each next generation of Range Rover that trying to improve (or more to the point, change the dynamics) it is pointless for the average owner using their car for average tasks. Some of the forum members have taken on coils for a good reason. Others will have coiled through frustration with the EAS, and there are the ones who tend to get stick from forum members. 8~
 

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I think the greatest thing about the air suspension is that, to and from the off road trials/events, you can drive the beast at normal ride heights on normal roads, yet still have extended height for off road. Its a no brainer for me!

Now, OE v Arnot GenIII, that is the REAL question!!!!!!

Gordon
 

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Why people install a lift kit on anything is beyond me.
The lowest point on a vehicle is the diff so it doesn´t matter how much lift is put into the suspension or body - the diff will still be the lowest point. Only larger tyres or geared hubs (Merc Unimog) will increase that.
Another thing to think about, when raising, is the raised centre of gravity, altered steering angles, prop shaft angles and other things that I can´t think of right now. Not to mention the handling when you must take evasive action on the road - sharp veering/swerving actions.
I see many raised 4wds on my travels as a truck driver and can only put it down to too much ´personal lubricant´.

If a driver needs to install a lift kit then maybe they should learn to 4wd properly first. By that I mean learn to pick driving lines, get out and read the terrain and don´t do stupid things. You won´t get it right every time but will definitely feel good when overcoming an obstacle without stopping, or becoming bogged or scrapping the bodywork too much - then you can jeer at your mates who get it wrong. If your mates want to break things that´s their business but if you can get home and only need to give it a bath you are better off - and not so poor $$$.
 

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P38 airsprung aside, the reason to fit a lift kit is to lift the body further away from the tires so that you can fit the 32 or 33 inch MT's.... which in turn gets you increased diff/chassis clearance.

Albeit at the expense of on road manners.

Gordon
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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Rowant said:
Why people install a lift kit on anything is beyond me.
The lowest point on a vehicle is the diff so it doesn´t matter how much lift is put into the suspension or body - the diff will still be the lowest point. Only larger tyres or geared hubs (Merc Unimog) will increase that.
Another thing to think about, when raising, is the raised centre of gravity, altered steering angles, prop shaft angles and other things that I can´t think of right now. Not to mention the handling when you must take evasive action on the road - sharp veering/swerving actions.
I see many raised 4wds on my travels as a truck driver and can only put it down to too much ´personal lubricant´.

If a driver needs to install a lift kit then maybe they should learn to 4wd properly first. By that I mean learn to pick driving lines, get out and read the terrain and don´t do stupid things. You won´t get it right every time but will definitely feel good when overcoming an obstacle without stopping, or becoming bogged or scrapping the bodywork too much - then you can jeer at your mates who get it wrong. If your mates want to break things that´s their business but if you can get home and only need to give it a bath you are better off - and not so poor $$$.
Oh sheesh, here we go...
For some bud, we NEED larger tires to go on the terrain we go on.
You are more than welcome to send anyone of your choosing to come and drive the stuff I do in my wheeling rig (on 37's). And of course they will be on standard size tires right? :lol:
I am also a truck driver (for the past 19yrs), and can personally tell the difference between a poser rig and a built rig.
Thats just me though. Maybe I am just not picking the right lines huh? :lol:
Back on topic.
Martin
 

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Scotty, hit the hammer right on the head! Stay with the Airbags, it's very easy to replace once you read the thread. I did my own last year and I loving the fact that I did it myself. I got 2 new bags and a complete EAS system( all on Ebay) and 2 extra compressors for the price of the coil kit. Replace them with help from the people on this site and saved myself 4000.00(dealer was going to charge me 5000.00) But, in the end, it's your call.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Interesting responses, I asked as I have a lot of experience with the Lincoln Town Car air bags, which are simply replaced with crown Vic springs and the ride doesn't suffer at all IMHO.

I am going to do some testing as recommended by Scott tomorrow and see what is right and what is wrong, but I am tending towards the repair at this stage.
 

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It doesn't get mentioned much, but air springs are much easier to replace than coil springs. Coil springs, you have to get a compressions tool, and forcefully compress the springs. As you may know, if you do the spring compression wrong (more so w/ mcpherson struts), the thing might pop right into your face, pretty much disfiguring your face for the rest of your life.

With air springs, you can compress it with your hands. I personally think it is much, much easier to replace air springs.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I did the airbag test Scotty advised me to do with soapy water, and to my surprise found no leaks from the bags anywhere. Later the car lowered quickly, we started it checking for oil leaks and when walking away it started an air leak from the area of the compressor, by the time we got it open it stopped, started it again but it did not leak out again all day.

Any hints.

Steve
 

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Personally im stayin with airbags. They ride nice, have convenient adjustability and are just just plain cool. And with a little research you can get it squared away yourself.
 

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Firstly, I'm very much in favor of the airsuspension, IMHO if you prever coils, you'd be better of driving a Classic (which I mus admit I do find better looking, especially the 3-doors :oops: ).
Maintenance and repairs take some getting used to, but are all logical enough, especially considering all the extra possibilities it offers opposed to coils.
I really appreciate the fact the car stays level, even (over)loaded or with a heavy trailer. Also used it a lot when working in construction to hitch up heavy trailers by driving under them in acces and then raising to offroad to hitch up automatically. 8)
And off course, as pointed out, you can drive to the offroading in highway mode, and afterwards raise for added clearance, thus avoiding the typical compromise other offroaders need to make. I have fitted 265/75R16 Mickey Thompsons on our both cars, without recalibrating the EAS, so the centre of gravity isn't changed too much (especially as I keep mine in highway mode a lot) but with the longer dampers and GENIIIs I get a lot more clearance and some more articulation offroad.

TheoR said:
It doesn't get mentioned much, but air springs are much easier to replace than coil springs. Coil springs, you have to get a compressions tool, and forcefully compress the springs. As you may know, if you do the spring compression wrong (more so w/ mcpherson struts), the thing might pop right into your face, pretty much disfiguring your face for the rest of your life.

With air springs, you can compress it with your hands. I personally think it is much, much easier to replace air springs.
I agree fitting airsprings is easier, if only because you don't even need a jack if you don't want to, simply raise the suspension, put supports under the chassis and lower.
That said, we do quite a lot of lifts for customers (mostly Defender, RRC and Disco) and rarely need to compress the springs. It does help doing the work on a 2-post lift, obviously.

Greetz,

Filip
 
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