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1970-1995 Range Rover Classic
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

Has anyone done a R380 or LT77 swap in a classic before? I'm considering it, and would appreciate the resource.

I know that the '95 came with a manual option from the factory, but don't think it was available in NAS. A parts-only discovery with a manual box popped up on craigslist, but I want to understand the process before diving into this.

Question that I have:

Transmission interchangeability :

  • Do the manual and automatic transmissions have the same bolt pattern (assuming yes, but never hurts to check)
  • Are the transmissions mounted in the same way?
  • Are they the same length?
  • Do they connect to the transferbox and driveshaft in the same way?

Parts needed:
  • Besides the obvious flywheel, transmission, clutch and cylinder from the donor truck, what else?
  • Will the pedal box from the 94 bolt into the 95?
  • How do we "fool the engine" into thinking it is in Park so that it turns on?

Installation process:

  • I read that you have to spread the frame rails to get the old box out. Has anyone done this before? Any other things I should watch out for?

Thanks!
Tom
 

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Late model Classic and Discovery 1 are basically the same vehicle under the skin so a swap for an R380 and it's transfer box should be straightforward. Although you didn't get the manual option in the US they were common in Europe. Spreading the chassis rails isn't to allow the gearbox to come out, it's to allow the crossmember to be dropped. Sometimes you need to do it, other times a crowbar will get it out. To fool the engine into thinking it is in neutral or park, you simply short together pins 4 and 5 on C323 on the LH side of the transmission and connect pins 2 and 3 to the reversing light switch on the gearbox. Pedal box should be a straight swap too.
 

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1970-1995 Range Rover Classic
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Richard! I'll take pictures if we try this out.
 

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I did a bit of research for a possible manual swap on my 84 (different gearbox) and found that the transferbox might have a different ratio between manual and auto. This could also impact your speedo calibration. Might be worth checking part numbers between the two setups.
 

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1970-1995 Range Rover Classic
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You also need to change the 14CUX transmission select resistor. It needs to be 560ohms (I think) and it’s an orange wire with a black tracer. This makes the engine hold the revs up slightly while changing gear.

Have you considered the crankshaft main bearings? The manual transmission cars had thrust washers to deal with the added clutch pressure.

T box’s will bolt straight up in the right place. Make sure you get the r380 with its mount bracket as this is different to the auto



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1970-1995 Range Rover Classic
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You also need to change the 14CUX transmission select resistor. It needs to be 560ohms (I think) and it’s an orange wire with a black tracer. This makes the engine hold the revs up slightly while changing gear.

Have you considered the crankshaft main bearings? The manual transmission cars had thrust washers to deal with the added clutch pressure.

T box’s will bolt straight up in the right place. Make sure you get the r380 with its mount bracket as this is different to the auto



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Thanks rangerovering, bringing this back because I am starting this project next month.

Can you please share more details about this extra thrust washer? In the engine overhaul manual it doesn't specify any differences between the engines of automatic and manual cars. It just says that "crankshaft end float is controlled by thrust faces on the upper half of center main bearing shell." Looks like the center main bearing is flanged while the others are not.

Where is the thrust washer installed, and where can I find that part?

Tom
 

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As far as I know it's as you've got it, there's no additional thrust fitted to either spec. That flanged main bearing is the only thrust in use.

Rear end of crank is ordinarily machined to accept the spigot of torque converter at standard diameter, it uses a phosphor bronze bush that is pushed in the same hole to give correct support to the manual transmission 1st motion shaft. So you'll need one of those to convert.
This is literally a small sleeve that you can push into the crank and should be easily available as it's sometimes needed to be changed for wear reasons when working on them.

Not sure if lt77 and r380 use the same spec, so you'll need to research that.
 

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I maybe didn’t explain very well earlier, I agree with you both it’s the centre main bearing that controls the end float. I was under the impression that there is a difference between auto and manual spec engines although it seems an unnecessary complication to production. It’s well mentioned on the internet about thrust “washer” issues, maybe the manual cars have thicker webs on the bearings?

I will do some digging.....


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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Awesome, thanks both!

I did find the bronze bush online, however the manual says that fitting it may require reaming to the proper size - I'm a little worried about that, because I don't have the proper tools to do that correctly.

I do have the donor R380 ready to go though, see pic... stay tuned.

R380.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ok so I just finished this (have loads of pictures to share). It was quite fun.

But now stuck on one last problem: it seems the clutch won't fully disengage? Brand new Lockheed master cylinder from Lucky8, new AP slave cylinder from Lucky8 as well, new AP clutch kit... spent a while bleeding the clutch and the pedal feels good, but it still won't fully come off the flywheel.

I've done some research and there seems to be a good bit of conflict about different length slave cylinders/pushrods and different sized release bearings for the diesel r380 vs the gas trucks. Does anyone know this to be true?

Right now I'm letting the truck sit, hoping it will "self-bleed" as some have suggested, but will also try inserting a small spacer into the slave cylinder to give me that last centimeter or so of clutch travel.

Any other ideas?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Just an update, it works now. So much fun to drive.

IMG_6292.jpg
 

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I'm working out a plan to do this swap in my 92. I'm sure I'll have a bunch of questions once I get started. For now, I have sourced the transmission, transfer case shift linkage, bellhousing, clutch and pedal box. Some questions on remaining things needed:
- Were you able to use the transmission cross member from the auto?
- How did you end up fitting that bronze bush?
- What other hardware did you need to mount the flywheel to your engine?
- Did you need to use the driveshafts from the discovery?
- Did you have any issues with the clutch master cylinder fouling on the ABS pump/hoses?


Any insights/pictures would be helpful. I've been wanting to do this swap for a long time.
 

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- Were you able to use the transmission cross member from the auto?
+ there are two types of cross members square tubing and round tubing. From what I can tell neither has any interference with the transmission, the interference is with the exhaust system. In early RR with the square cross member the exhaust goes over it, on later cars the exhaust goes under it. You probably can just keep your cross member which works with whatever exhaust solution you already have fitted. You might find you need to play a little with the exhaust hanger around the transfer case.
- How did you end up fitting that bronze bush?
+ tap in place gentle, interference fit, but nothing dramatic
- What other hardware did you need to mount the flywheel to your engine?
+ Correct grade bolts - fine thread. They had the correct thread at the local Ace, but not the grade so I ordered a set - readily available and not expensive. Use tread locker and torque them up
- Did you need to use the driveshafts from the discovery?
+ cannot answer, but on my 83 RRC the location of the transfer care does not change between auto and manual. The same mount is used on the RH side (mounts the transfer case to the frame) so this would be a good guide if you want to look at the parts manual.
- Did you have any issues with the clutch master cylinder fouling on the ABS pump/hoses?
+ cannot answer as my car does not have ABS :cool: , however the master cylinder is really small, recessed and does not protrude into the engine bay at all. You should be able to judge from pictures. It would surprise me if they would have a different mounting location for a manual. The bulkhead bracket does seem to be different for different years with the brake booster changing. Mostly you can adjust the bracket with some more holes etc. The pedal box is a little confusing overall with different pedals shapes as well (LH-RH, Disco/RRC). You can bend and adjust, but hopefully you get a set that fits right our of the box.
 

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1970-1995 Range Rover Classic
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- Were you able to use the transmission cross member from the auto?
+ there are two types of cross members square tubing and round tubing. From what I can tell neither has any interference with the transmission, the interference is with the exhaust system. In early RR with the square cross member the exhaust goes over it, on later cars the exhaust goes under it. You probably can just keep your cross member which works with whatever exhaust solution you already have fitted. You might find you need to play a little with the exhaust hanger around the transfer case.
- How did you end up fitting that bronze bush?
+ tap in place gentle, interference fit, but nothing dramatic
- What other hardware did you need to mount the flywheel to your engine?
+ Correct grade bolts - fine thread. They had the correct thread at the local Ace, but not the grade so I ordered a set - readily available and not expensive. Use tread locker and torque them up
- Did you need to use the driveshafts from the discovery?
+ cannot answer, but on my 83 RRC the location of the transfer care does not change between auto and manual. The same mount is used on the RH side (mounts the transfer case to the frame) so this would be a good guide if you want to look at the parts manual.
- Did you have any issues with the clutch master cylinder fouling on the ABS pump/hoses?
+ cannot answer as my car does not have ABS :cool: , however the master cylinder is really small, recessed and does not protrude into the engine bay at all. You should be able to judge from pictures. It would surprise me if they would have a different mounting location for a manual. The bulkhead bracket does seem to be different for different years with the brake booster changing. Mostly you can adjust the bracket with some more holes etc. The pedal box is a little confusing overall with different pedals shapes as well (LH-RH, Disco/RRC). You can bend and adjust, but hopefully you get a set that fits right our of the box.
Thank you so much for your response. Finding people who have done this swap has proven to be difficult. Your 83 would have had the Chrysler automatic, correct? I'm trying to determine if there's anything I will need to mount the R380 other than the mounting brackets that are there for my auto. Since I only bought the transmission by itself, I wasn't able to see how it mounted in the disco.
I think I have everything sorted for how I will swap the pedals. If I need to do some welding and drilling it's not the end of the world.
I have tubular headers, so I need to fabricate a simple heatshield for the master since I think it will sit kinda close and they put out a lot of heat.
 
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