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2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi
I did change my autobox with a revised one.
I have two issues:
1.It seems to wait too much for 4-5 change.And 4-5 is the most felt change;2-3-4 are very smooth.This happens at slight uphills,even i have minimum throttle it waits till 3000-3500rpms.
2.This week after 1500miles it makes a thump as it takes from R to D.Not from N to D or D to R.
Hope i get some response,thanks.
 

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Since you seem to be in a hurry for an answer with repeated bumping already, can you explain what the "revised" is about? Are you meaning rebuilt, from a different model, newer...?
 

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2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Discussion Starter #3
:)
I changed mine with a rebuilt one-with original parts.I dont know what year the transmission is.
 

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Try resetting the gearbox - it goes something like:

Unlock the car,
jump in,
press the accelerator to the floor so it presses down the kickdown and keep it down
key in the ignition
turn the ignition to stage 2 ( all the dash lights up )
DONT START IT ... just leave it there whilst you have the pedal to the floor
wait a while ( 30seconds or longer i think )
ignition off
key out
pedal up.

come back to it in a few minutes and see if it drives better.l
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It definitely drove better fisha,thanks.
But again as 1-2-3-4 did around 2000rpms 4-5 waited till 2500-2600.
It wasnt waiting that much with older box.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi
Tried again this morning it was much smoother and did the right changes.
Thanks again for useful info.
Are these adaptable transmissions?If so i wonder what the driver is doing!
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
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Your ’02-’05 diesel would certainly appear to have an adaptive transmission control system, as can be seen at the bottom of this page : http://www.blackbox-solutions.com/shop/help/SM075.html

However Blackbox mention no such feature on the ‘02-’05 petrol models : http://www.blackbox-solutions.com/shop/help/SM051.html

and they also state on their forum that the GS8.60.1 controller appears not to have adaptive learning

Nevertheless a number of forum members with the petrol model claim to have noticed a change in their transmission’s shift performance after having carried out the ‘reset’ procedure :
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27955&p=274154

Phil
 

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2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Discussion Starter #8
System Pressure/Solenoid 1: This can be turned ON/OFF or returned to ECU control.
Torque Converter Clutch/Solenoid 4: This can be turned ON/OFF or returned to ECU control.
Shift Solenoid 1, 2 and 3: These can be turned ON/OFF or returned to ECU control.
 

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I do confirm that with my ZF , for the V8 4,4L BMW engine 2002 , the reset process works fine . `)

and that makes me think i need to do it today !!!

Jaybear
 

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umitbat said:
System Pressure/Solenoid 1: This can be turned ON/OFF or returned to ECU control.
Torque Converter Clutch/Solenoid 4: This can be turned ON/OFF or returned to ECU control.
Shift Solenoid 1, 2 and 3: These can be turned ON/OFF or returned to ECU control.
Yes I’ve done this using my Faultmate but I’m sure it’s just a temporary manual override to test the solenoids i.e. you can take over control from the ECU, switch them on & off manually and then return control back to the ECU again. Nothing to do with adaptive learning as far as I can see.

Phil
 

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2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Yes, I’d always taken that reference to mean the selection by the transmission controller of the in-built modes such as Hill Mode, Cooling Strategy Mode, Engine Warm-up Mode etc. which it engages without any driver input.

I wondered if anyone had seen anything written down that states that the 5HP24 has any type of adaptive learning/adjustment in the L322? This could be either a) adjusting gearshift events e.g. modulating pressures to maintain shift times as clutches wear during the lifetime of the transmission or b) adjusting the shift maps according to the driver’s habits to better accommodate his/her driving style?

I’ve certainly seen references to this for the GM 5-speed and the ZF 6-speed (2006-on) transmissions but never for the ZF 5-speed unit.

Phil
 

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2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Phil,

Seem's your right, I think I was reading RAVE wrong.... It seems the ZF is not an adaptive box.

I've PM'd you some more info...
 

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Many thanks for that Dan.

From what you sent it would appear that (in BMW 5HP24 applications, at least) there is ‘type a’ adaption going on - i.e. monitoring shift performance over the lifetime of the transmission and adjusting for wear by modifying pressures accordingly - but no ‘type b’ adjustment - i.e. nothing related to learning the driver’s style. Interesting.

Phil
 

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Discussion Starter #15
monitoring shift performance over the lifetime of the transmission and adjusting for wear by modifying pressures accordingly
How does this happen?
 

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Phil

i have no written evidence that 5HP24 has any type of adaptive learning/adjustment in the L322 . Sorry about that , and never searched for it .
But
1/ i found this gizmo in the Xoutpost website forum , and decided , what the heck if it works for X why not try with L332 ??
2/ As i said I would do , i di the rest process again yesterday evening when leaving the office , and i found again a much smoother autobox , ie gears going up sooner and with an almost impossible to notice shift .
I had not done it for almost 4 monts before . and its like to having a new autobox . :D :D
 

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umitbat said:
monitoring shift performance over the lifetime of the transmission and adjusting for wear by modifying pressures accordingly
How does this happen?
The ECU uses the input & output speed sensors to monitor the time that the clutches are slipping for during each shift. If the shift times go outside a pre-defined boundary then the hydraulic pressure applied to the clutches is modified (the transmission has proportional pressure control) to bring it back within limits again.

For example - as the transmission ages and the plates wear the clutch piston travel will increase meaning the fill times increase and therefore the shift times too. If this were allowed to continue the plates would generate more heat which would increase the wear on them. So if the ECU supplied 500mA (PWM) to a proportional solenoid to achieve the correct shift time when the transmission was new it may be supplying 550mA to achieve the same shift time after 100,000 miles. This ‘adaptive learning’ is clearly a very gradual process over a long period of time.

In the example above, I guess if the adaptions are then reset at 100,000 miles the ECU would then go back to supplying 500mA again instead of 550mA, but it should then quickly learn that the shift times are too long and start to increase the pressures again accordingly? This is pure speculation on my part.

Phil
 

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To me that makes sense. Would be interesting to know over what sort of time frame it considers whether an adjustment is required, and whether adjustments are a 1-way affair of only upping the current.

I suppose you could also get the situation where if you've re-filled the box with fresh fluid, that would make all the slip times change, but the box is now over-powering the clutches? cause its still thinking of old fluid values, and has no means to back down the power? Or - 1 poor shift for whatever reason makes the box apply adjustments which aren't really needed and cant be reverted.

Again, speculation on my part, but it would make me think that periodic resets are perhaps a good thing so that the box has to re-learn.
 

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All that gobble-de-gook sounds no bad actually.
I think I will reset it when service doing.
mmmm I trust that my GM 5L40-E box is reset-a-bubble?
 
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fisha said:
To me that makes sense. Would be interesting to know over what sort of time frame it considers whether an adjustment is required, and whether adjustments are a 1-way affair of only upping the current.

I suppose you could also get the situation where if you've re-filled the box with fresh fluid, that would make all the slip times change, but the box is now over-powering the clutches? cause its still thinking of old fluid values, and has no means to back down the power? Or - 1 poor shift for whatever reason makes the box apply adjustments which aren't really needed and cant be reverted.

Again, speculation on my part, but it would make me think that periodic resets are perhaps a good thing so that the box has to re-learn.
In a PWM shift solenoid, the current required is merely a function to support flow rate. As the transmission and fluid and even the solenoid itself ages and wears, there will be a need to adjust for these wear characteristics. The original PI curve (Pressure versus amperage) that was supplied with the solenoid valve would be mapped to the ECU as the "baseline" for failsafe or limp home mode. If the ecu were reset then it would go back to factory defaul settings which would obviously not be the same for a 100,000 mile transmission. The PI curve will be "adapted" by the ECU by providing more current or adjusting the dither frequency (probably the prefered method of doing it) to allow the valve to stay open longer for increased flow to compensate for the wear in component parts (i.e. cluth discs). So while the L322 may not have a truly adaptive transmission, it will adapt to changes in preset variables.
 
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