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Discussion Starter #1
A friend told me about this product, he has a Rav 4 with similar cam advance gear rattle. The system is basically an accumulator tank that fills up with pressurized oil when the engine is running. When the engine is shut off, pressurized oil is trapped in the tank by a check valve. When the ignition is turned on, a solenoid opens and the pressurized oil in the accumulator is fed into the engine. So basically you have peak oil pressure before you crank the engine over.

Has any one used this type of system before? Seems like a good solution to the vanos rattle. I've had both vanos rebuilt, but they still rattle on occasion. Also seems like it would make for smoother starts, pumped up tensioners and lifters, and less wear.

Here's a link to one of the kits. Curious to know where would be best place to tap the tank into the system; just tee into the oil pressure switch?

http://www.engineprelube.com

We have an accumulator on our RV water system, and it works great. We get about 5 seconds of water pressure from the accumulator, which reduces the cycling of the pump. Kind of excited to try this, has anyone done it before?
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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Never heard of it, and not sure why anyone would bother for short storage times.....Like overnight etc.
The most pressure it can hold is the normal hot oil pressure from the engine, unless it somehow makes it's own pressure too?
Yes prelubed is always better, but I doubt there's enough there to fully lubricate a complete motor before start up.
You're an engineer though, so you probably know better than us mere mortals :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It has a check valve, so it should be able to store the max pressure the engine can produce, ~60 psi when engine is cold.

Not sure what a typical flow rate is for oil, but if it can pump for 2-3 seconds, that would be 2-3 seconds less vanos rattle, which might eliminate the rattle all together. The accumulator in our RV water system flows for about 5 seconds.




Never heard of it, and not sure why anyone would bother for short storage times.....Like overnight etc.
The most pressure it can hold is the normal hot oil pressure from the engine, unless it somehow makes it's own pressure too?
Yes prelubed is always better, but I doubt there's enough there to fully lubricate a complete motor before start up.
You're an engineer though, so you probably know better than us mere mortals :lol:
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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After I rebuilt the VANOS and timing chains etc in the '03, it never had a rattle again.
No idea on the oil pressure, as non of the MkIII Rover's I've had or worked on had a gauge. If you say it's 60psi, then fair enough.
Where does the magic oil from the pressurized container enter the engine at?
And please quit comparing a quad cam all aluminum V8 to a water system in an RV :roll:, it just makes it sound like you're trying to justify it to yourself.

You're trying to mask a problem by installing more junk by the sound of it.
Your rig, your choice of course. I've just never heard of anyone adding more junk to cover up a problem working out well is all.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I've had both vanos rebuilt along with timing chain guides @165k miles. I had the vanos done as PM, it didn't rattle before this. My indi rebuilt the vanos a second time, and still the rattle exists. Not sure what my next steps are. I've changed the check valves behind the solenoid valves. Im not about to pull the heads to check the other check valves. The car's worth probably $4k, and rebuilding Vanos again, or pulling heads, would probably cost more than the car is worth, so yes I'm trying to find an alternative solution that might work.

Oil from the accumulator would enter through the oil pressure switch port on the filter housing.

As far as trying to justify the purchase of this oil system, yes, I'm trying to figure out if this would really do what I need it to do. The RV accumulator works at roughly the same pressure (55psi) and is roughly the same volume (about a quart), obviously there are other differences. I don't imagine oil flow in an engine is more than my RV sink faucet, IDK?

Yes, it would irritate me to have some ghetto tank under the hood. I've kept the engine bay stock & pristine, I even powder coated the valve covers. I've put a ton of money into this truck, and I don't think throwing more money to rebuild vanos a 3rd time is a solution. If an oil accumulator works half as well as an RV accumulator, it seems like a cheap solution to an expensive problem.

After I rebuilt the VANOS and timing chains etc in the '03, it never had a rattle again.
No idea on the oil pressure, as non of the MkIII Rover's I've had or worked on had a gauge. If you say it's 60psi, then fair enough.
Where does the magic oil from the pressurized container enter the engine at?
And please quit comparing a quad cam all aluminum V8 to a water system in an RV :roll:, it just makes it sound like you're trying to justify it to yourself.

You're trying to mask a problem by installing more junk by the sound of it.
Your rig, your choice of course. I've just never heard of anyone adding more junk to cover up a problem working out well is all.
 

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I've had preoilers installed on my Rolls Royces, Packards and few very old V12 Cadillacs. They are excellent for engines that parts are ungodly hard to locate or very complex engines. They eliminate the need to start the engine and run dry waiting for oil pressure to come up.
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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Carl,
Recommended for a daily driver though? Did yours use a check valve to keep pressure, or pre oil from a separate source?
I've used them on new engine builds etc, just never on a daily driven rig. Dont know why Detroit dont put one on the $50,000 lump of metal under my hood if they work as advertised.....

Martin
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Adding anything that improves reliability beyond the warranty period just makes the car more expensive.

Carl,
Dont know why Detroit dont put one on the $50,000 lump of metal under my hood if they work as advertised.....

Martin
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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Adding anything that improves reliability beyond the warranty period just makes the car more expensive.
My "car" cost $188,000 and can be optioned with just about anything that is of use. Thus my comment about why they dont even offer it
 

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Doesn't need a check valve or a separate source. The input for the pump is a hose fitting added to the oil sump. The output was into any one of the upper exposed oil lines found on late prewar cars and early post war cars.
 

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Very often in BMW engines the actual problem with lack of oil pressure for first seconds after start is cause by faulty oil filter or oil filter housing. Those filter housings has a drainage valve on the bottom that help with clean oil filter removal, by draining oil to the pan, as you move filter up.

My experience is that some aftermarket filters are not pressing this valve good enough, causing it to leak. In effect, you start the engine with bone dry oil filter housing, what is a real source of rattle. Use only filters with plastic caps on the bottom and top. Also install them diffently, as manual says. Fist put filter to the housing and press down to make sure it is seated, then install the plastic caps.

You can do a simple test to make sure this is your problem. Simply remove the filter when engine is cold. If the filter element is dry it means that the filter housing was empty, while it should have been full of oil. Properly operating valve keeps it full of oil all the time, except while filter is beeing removed.
 

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Here is a list of oil pressure rattle related spots:

1) Vanos check valves - one each side; 2) Timing chain tensioner (1 on bank 1); 3) head check valve located under head gasket with a rubber o-ring (sleeve)(one per head); 4) cam chain tensioners (one on each side); and 5) oil housing.

Rebuilding the vanos does not allow solve the problem when using Beisan's kit - the quality of the repair depends on the condition of the original vanos. Some work great some do not and some cannot even be rebuilt. Overseas places offer a proper repair which actually replaces the o-ring Beisan process crushes to seal.

With that said, all the 5 listed items are designed to keep oil in the system in some capacity so chain rattle is minimized and/or oil is where it needs to be at start up. I would think adding the device you mention would not work that well as there are several items in the engine design which will fight the process (push back) and/or will not receive the pressure b/c other items are up stream. Not sure if that makes sense.
 
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