[Onenuttman]

Been having a lot of issues lately and one fix that has popped up a couple of times is to re-fash or program the PCM. Has anyone ever done this and if so is it somethign you have to take to the dealer?

Issues;
Thermostat, coolant took too long to get up to temp
I have replaced the thermostat, replaced the temp sensor, replaced the coolant and full cooling system flush, replaced the heater core, replaced the expansion tank
Multiple misfire codes inclluding miscelanious, in first 1000 revolutions, Cylinders 1, 4, and 6 but it runs perfectly and the miss fires are intermittent in live data
I have new spark plugs and new coils, just for hte hell of it I swapped coils and still had same codes, then I swapped spark plugs and still had the same codes
Most recently I got a Crankshaft position and Camshaft position correlation Bank 1 Sensor A, not at all sure what this one means but I thought about changin gboth of those for good measure.

Thanks for the help!!

 

[mylife1903]

And your engine is??
If you have a 4.2 4.4 engine
Is there 2 thermostats second one always fails. If your engine temperature is dropping while you on a highway its a mostly thermostat.
If hheater works intermittent its mostly coolant valve and webasto valve.

For Misfires you have to first search for airleaks, smoke test. Check the cylinder compression first.
Is there any other codes?
Maybe your running lean, fuel trims?
Start with the compression, if everything is ok, clean injectors and swap o2 sensors from side by side

You can buy a mangoose cable and download the dealer program to update pcm and configure all modules
!!!Never touch transmission, never clean adaptation on tranny and never update the software!!!

 

[Onenuttman]

And your engine is??
If you have a 4.2 4.4 engine
Is there 2 thermostats second one always fails. If your engine temperature is dropping while you on a highway its a mostly thermostat.
If hheater works intermittent its mostly coolant valve and webasto valve.

For Misfires you have to first search for airleaks, smoke test. Check the cylinder compression first.
Is there any other codes?
Maybe your running lean, fuel trims?
Start with the compression, if everything is ok, clean injectors and swap o2 sensors from side by side

You can buy a mangoose cable and download the dealer program to update pcm and configure all modules
!!!Never touch transmission, never clean adaptation on tranny and never update the software!!!

It is a 4.2 SC
I have never heard of a vehicle having two thermostats??? I did hear something about one in the oil cooler system but that sounded weiord to me as oil coolers have oil in them. Does this vehicle have a heat exchanger? that would make more sense?
Coolant valve? I just did the heater core and this system is a flow through, there are no valves??
Codes are P0128, P0136, P0300, P0304, P0301, and P0306
I had a $5000 Snapon scanner froma buddy of mine and I watched live data on the injector pulses and they were perfect! Also, watched live data on the cylinder misfires and not a single one showed up.
I also looked at fuel trims in the live data and all looked great!
The car runs perfect and idles smooth as can be.... if I was having a misfire in two or three cyclinders it would defitely be runnign rough...Even a vacuum leak would make it run rough but I can check for that and will check comporession and see where that falls...
Good number for compression on this is 135 psi correct?

Thanks much!!!!

 

[mylife1903]

It is a 4.2 SC
I have never heard of a vehicle having two thermostats??? I did hear something about one in the oil cooler system but that sounded weiord to me as oil coolers have oil in them. Does this vehicle have a heat exchanger? that would make more sense?
Coolant valve? I just did the heater core and this system is a flow through, there are no valves??
Codes are P0128, P0136, P0300, P0304, P0301, and P0306
I had a $5000 Snapon scanner froma buddy of mine and I watched live data on the injector pulses and they were perfect! Also, watched live data on the cylinder misfires and not a single one showed up.
I also looked at fuel trims in the live data and all looked great!
The car runs perfect and idles smooth as can be.... if I was having a misfire in two or three cyclinders it would defitely be runnign rough...Even a vacuum leak would make it run rough but I can check for that and will check comporession and see where that falls...
Good number for compression on this is 135 psi correct?

Thanks much!!!!

This is the second thermostat. It have a build-in thermostat.
I had bad thermostat issue without a code. I had a second thermostat issue also never had a code.
Interesting cars. Every each one is unique

This are coolant valves. Second one is webasto valve. Actually there are bmw parts. We have Very crazy cooling heating system. It drives me crazy but not a big problem, everthing is here are rebuildable parts except thermostats

You are driving 4.2 and you have intercooler pump. Check that pump. I don’t know it has a any role in this system or not. Intercooler pump have own closed system own radiator. Check it.
If you have 2006 year maybe you have to remove that pump and replace the connection. Is there a tsb for that. You can buy a pump from bosch its 2 times cheaper. Or if you are planings 4-5 years own this car I suggest you replace this pump with a powerful Mercedes agm pump.
It has big flow and cools the system quickly. This is the part number BOSCH 0392022010

Now for misfires
I am not a auto mechanic but have too much experience in this 4.2 engine.
It is acting very interesting and you have to monitor every data to understand what is going wrong.
We have too much 4.2 engines broken in russia due to gas quality oul quality lack of good maintenance
I had crankshaft sensor and camshaft sensor codes broken part was starter. After engine rebuild i get crankshaft code real one. Engine just died middle of the higway, didnt start tried 4-5 times than starts with new year lightnings. Tranny died eas died in second gear on bumpstops drove to garage, was the crankshaft position sensor connector.

What is the smeel from exhaust?
If you have a donor car from a friend check pcv valves and hoses especially the long one from valve to the throttle body. Fuel pressure?
What about intake air temperature?

Light misfires always comes from cats or injectors. I seen 2 rangies with the same engine. One has clogged cat on passenger side. Stealer told him he needs a new engine, engine is gone, he cut out the converters and still driving the car. Second one has static misfire on 7th stealer told him he has to open the engine and do the head job, chains guides some valves are burnt. He just replaced the injector and still driving.

I had both of them. No lucky
Did the head job did the chains replaced valves.

If you have a garage in your city can check converters do the test also.

If you have gold hands take the injectors out test them on a stand

 

[Onenuttman]

It is a 2008. Here is the freeze frame data. Do you see anything obvious?

 

[mylife1903]

It is a 2008. Here is the freeze frame data. Do you see anything obvious?

All trims are +
Adding fuel but this frame is after first minute. Maybe o2 sensors aren’t in closed loop, not heated to working temperature.
4th cylinder is on driver side second from the front bumper. Keep running to the working temperature and than check trims and maf readings for 1000rpm 2000rpm and 3000rpm

Turn the key secons position and check the intercooler pump if its working its mean you have newer software in ecu module. Earlier versions of software kicks chargers pump only in underload while intake air temperature is rising.

Little bid test info for supercharger pump. It is not science just experice

Ambient temperature is+16C
1) if you are driving 0-240 full pedal wot intake air temperature is 57C
2) after that if your stopping with working engine intake temperatire is raising 75C
3) if you are stopping the engine for 5 minutes temperature is raising 90C
4) for better performanxe for kickdown you have to cool the intake air temperature. With stock pump you have to drive the engine 110km/h for 6 minute to decrease intake air temperature to 46C after that you can drive it like mika hakkinen again

After 30 minute driving supercharged like a supercharhed is decreasing your engine performance 1.5 second on a 100-200 race. Not 8 second 9.5 second. Cause of warm air intake lack of enough cooling on intercooling system.

After replacing intercooler pump with a bigger faster pump
1)0-240 with kickdown and wot the intake air temperature is raising 53C
2)on stops with running engine temperature is not raising over 70C
3) stopping the engine raise temperature in both cases
4)with bigger pump 4 minutes is enough to decrease air intake temperature to 42C

Why i write this things if you have to buy a new pump buy this one

 

[Onenuttman]

All trims are +
Adding fuel but this frame is after first minute. Maybe o2 sensors aren’t in closed loop, not heated to working temperature.
4th cylinder is on driver side second from the front bumper. Keep running to the working temperature and than check trims and maf readings for 1000rpm 2000rpm and 3000rpm

Turn the key secons position and check the intercooler pump if its working its mean you have newer software in ecu module. Earlier versions of software kicks chargers pump only in underload while intake air temperature is rising.

Little bid test info for supercharger pump. It is not science just experice

Ambient temperature is+16C
1) if you are driving 0-240 full pedal wot intake air temperature is 57C
2) after that if your stopping with working engine intake temperatire is raising 75C
3) if you are stopping the engine for 5 minutes temperature is raising 90C
4) for better performanxe for kickdown you have to cool the intake air temperature. With stock pump you have to drive the engine 110km/h for 6 minute to decrease intake air temperature to 46C after that you can drive it like mika hakkinen again

After 30 minute driving supercharged like a supercharhed is decreasing your engine performance 1.5 second on a 100-200 race. Not 8 second 9.5 second. Cause of warm air intake lack of enough cooling on intercooling system.

After replacing intercooler pump with a bigger faster pump
1)0-240 with kickdown and wot the intake air temperature is raising 53C
2)on stops with running engine temperature is not raising over 70C
3) stopping the engine raise temperature in both cases
4)with bigger pump 4 minutes is enough to decrease air intake temperature to 42C

Why i write this things if you have to buy a new pump buy this one

I am gonna jump around a little bit here so my apologies. Please see this picture below. The hoses I am pointing at are cool even though the gauge is hot and temp is at 253° Heater was blowing cold too. I know the one on the left is the supercharger cooling hoses coming off the pump you were referring to. which I did turn key to second position and it appeared to be working. The other hose is the lower radiator hose and it was cool as well but the upper hose was hot. This makes no sense to me unless the radiator is clogged?? Or could it be that other thermostat? Where is that one located? I also have some live data logged from a freeway drive I am going to try and post. Thanks again for your help!

 

[Onenuttman]

Here is the live data from a freeway drive, I could not attach the entire spread sheet so I had to take some screen shots.Does anything jump out as an obvious issue?

 

[Onenuttman]

This is the second thermostat. It have a build-in thermostat.
I had bad thermostat issue without a code. I had a second thermostat issue also never had a code.
Interesting cars. Every each one is unique

I do not think I have one of these.... I have the 4.2 SC and I only found one of these on the 4.4...

I am wondering if that supercharger cooler pump is just not strong enough and I should replace it for good measure. When I put key to second position it does vibrate but maybe not strong.

 

[mylife1903]

Engine hot 253f like 120C i think it is too much. On this temperature you have cold hoses and cold air coming from heater and i am adding to this calculation you replaced the upper thermostat maybe you have air in the system.
If thermostat bought frombritpart not oem sometimes it not fits. I saw couples of rangies.

For second thermostat, of course you have if you dont have you have to put it in. I have exact same engine 4.2 sc with 2 thermostats and 4.4 engine has same cooling diagram just dont have intercooler pump.

Live data tells me you have a leak air leaks are pia in this engine. Sometimes acts like leak. Trims are closing to zero under load. Trims are + but not enough to trigger a lean code.
Dirty injectors could act like that also.

 

[mylife1903]

This is the second thermostat
This hose not just a hose

 

[mylife1903]

Look like this

I had this issue with very dirty radiators, in traffic jams temp goes up in summer times and I always turn the heater full speed full warm to the legs and temperature gone down, replaced this mazafika washed the radiators everthings is ok

 

[mylife1903]

Oscar goes to no11
This is the location

 

[Onenuttman]

Ok, I get it now. thank you!

One thing though, when I replaced the heater core i did flush the entire cooling system but the heater core was clogged up pretty tight with crap. Someone had used the wrong coolant and it solidified into a goop. than being said I am wondering if I should replace the radiator before this second thermostat, what do you think? I ask because the lower radiator hose was cool while the top was hot?

 

[mylife1903]

Start with cheapest and simplest

 

[Onenuttman]

Start with cheapest and simplest

Good call, thanks for all the help!!!

 

[Onenuttman]

Okay, so I did some research and my Rover does not have that second thermostat.... It must be the difference between a 2006 or 7 and the 2008 which I have. That being said with the picture above showing an overheat with a hot upper rad hose and a cool lower rad hose I think the radiator must be clogged up just like the heater core was... See pics of the core and what I got out of it below. This leads me to beilieve that the radiator must have the same crap in it and that is what I should replace next. Thoughts? I have bled the system at least a dozen times and still having the issue... I have replaced the heater core, the thermostat, the expansion tank and flushed the system a couple of different times, then filled it full of new antifreeze.