[rowbo99]

Hi, I am trying to assist my brother as his P38 has given up the ghost!

The vehicle is a 4.6l HSE running a Prins LPG system. 10 miles from journey's end he stopped and switched the engine off (he keeps getting the select neutral message) then when trying to restart the engine it cranked but would not fire.

Unfortunately he is currently at sea and hasn't been able to check the basics like plugs, fuel Pp etc (however it has recently had new plugs, the leads are Magnicor and it has a brand new fuel Pp); could it be down to the BECM and ECU getting out of sync? How can you tell? He has vehicle explorer software for the Engine ECU and BECM. If it is sync how much does it cost to get it re-sync'd?

I feel kind of guilty as I only just sold it to him (although all worked fine and I had no issues).

I have search the forums - but as ever there is a wealth of info some of which is similar to this problem.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[John W]

In my experience if it cranks but does not fire ,then it is unlikely to a sync issue .It should not crank at all.
The one item that has no backup if it fails is the crankshaft postion sensor.It will crank but not fire.
Could also be a fuel pump issue.Have you checked fuses, as it suddenly happened it could be a fuel pump fuse or relay. :think:

 

[rowbo99]

Hi John,

In short no, but that is because I haven't got access to the vehicle - it will be the first thing my brother will check in a few weeks.

Will discount the easy bits first. WRT the crank position sensor, could a dodgy one also cause a possible misfire, because the car does have a rough idle and occasionally a misfire at 3500rpm? Any ideas how can you check the sensor?

Thanks for your help.

 

[viperover]

Fuel pump, engine relay, fuses, crank sensor, blocked fuel fiter

Start with the basics, can you hear the fuel pump run briefly when ignition is turned on
Fusebox connectors underneath can give trouble too, under fuse box is 6 connectors, the one closet to the engine on the right (Pink) supplies power to engine ecu, connector can be removed and plugged in/out a few times to correct any connection issues.

I could go on and but bet its the crank shaft sensor if its a gems system

 

[jonboi002]

I'm having the same problem as rowbo99. However, I know for sure that mine is a GEMS engine(98 4.6HSE). I have also done the sticky and the alternator is in pristine condition, the the battery is 2 days old, and all the connections and wires have been changed back in December 09. I spoke with my local indie and he said it sounds like the crankshaft position sensor. My question is where is it located(search high and low for my RAVE CD, nowhere to be found :crybaby2: ) so I can see if I could correct it myself because he can't fit me in until next week. Pictures are welcomed!

 

[rowbo99]

Hi Jonboi,

Imagine if you were lying under the engine with your legs hanging out the front. The sensor is on the bottom left corner of the engine at the rear, basically opposite where the starter is fitted.

no photos I'm afraid.

 

[jonboi002]

Thanks Rowbo99, I'll check it out. Wish me luck!!! :thumb: :thumb: ray: ray:

 

[jonboi002]

Thanks for your help on this matter. Unfornately my problem goes deeper than the crankshaft sensor. My fuel pump decided it was time to quit on me after 11 years(2nd onwer.) Not bad since I now know it's been an issue since I first got her. When I would gas her up I would have to stand there and restart the pumping process many times until she would fill up. Anyways, 600.00 total dollars later including parts and labor. I got a new one from a buddy who total his late last year (709.00 retail new) she's back on the road.

 

[John W]

Thanks for your help on this matter. Unfornately my problem goes deeper than the crankshaft sensor. My fuel pump decided it was time to quit on me after 11 years(2nd onwer.) Not bad since I now know it's been an issue since I first got her. When I would gas her up I would have to stand there and restart the pumping process many times until she would fill up. Anyways, 600.00 total dollars later including parts and labor. I got a new one from a buddy who total his late last year (709.00 retail new) she's back on the road.

Are you saying the difficulty you had in filling the petrol tank was related to your fuel pump failure?.If so how? :think:

 

[Col]

When I would gas her up I would have to stand there and restart the pumping process many times until she would fill up

That is a fuel filler pipe problem, on later cars they fitted a modified pipe to cure the problem.

Cheers

 

[John W]

When I would gas her up I would have to stand there and restart the pumping process many times until she would fill up

That is a fuel filler pipe problem, on later cars they fitted a modified pipe to cure the problem.

Cheers

Thats what I thought,so didnt (still dont)understand what he was saying.

Do you know if the upgrade is simple to fit.Mine takes a long time to fill as well?

 

[Col]

Do you know if the upgrade is simple to fit.Mine takes a long time to fill as well?

Did mine a while back not to much of a pain with the wheel arch liner out, the bit that hurts is the price of the new pipe from L/R around £140.00. Could always try and get a s/hand one I guess.

Cheers

 

[jonboi002]

My indie here in San Diego(Land Rover Specialist) told me that sometimes the crankshaft sensor & fuel pump cancel each other out if one of them stops working properly. We started with the sensor she still didn't crank. Couple hour later after installing the fuel pump she turned over like nobody's business. Like I said when I went to fill her up I would have to stand there because it would stop after pumping a couple of gallons. I would then have to pull the nosal out and let the gas go down.This is something I would have to do multiple time just to get fuel in her so it wasn't a fuel filter pipe upgrade kind of situation. It was the actual pump. Also when I go to pump no problems filling up.

 

[John W]

Do you know if the upgrade is simple to fit.Mine takes a long time to fill as well?

Did mine a while back not to much of a pain with the wheel arch liner out, the bit that hurts is the price of the new pipe from L/R around £140.00. Could always try and get a s/hand one I guess.

Cheers

Do have any more info regarding this upgrade.? I have done a site search and Land Rover recalls but cant find anything.The Part number and year from which the the new pipe was fiited would help to source a used one.
Cheers
John

 

[Col]

The only connection that I can see between filling the fuel tank and the actual fuel pump is the fact that the breather pipe fitted to the filler neck is connected to the tank via a connection on the top of the fuel pump unit.
I believe there was a issue at some point off the breather pipe becoming twisted during installation at the factory when the cars were being built, which could possibly cause this problem.

Do have any more info regarding this upgrade.? I have done a site search and Land Rover recalls but cant find anything.The Part number and year from which the the new pipe was fiited would help to source a used one.

Cheers

 

[BargePilot]

Like I said when I went to fill her up I would have to stand there because it would stop after pumping a couple of gallons. I would then have to pull the nosal out and let the gas go down.This is something I would have to do multiple time just to get fuel in her so it wasn't a fuel filter pipe upgrade kind of situation. It was the actual pump. Also when I go to pump no problems filling up.

I'm lost here. And I would like to understand you, because I too have had problems filling up. So, what you're saying is you get a few gallons in and then have to run the fuel pump a bit, before you can get another few gallons in?

 

[Col]

The Problem with filling up is the Filler Neck/Pipe/Breather not the Fuel Pump. I had exactly the same problem and the the New Type Filler Neck SOLVED the problem completely. Please read the Service Bulletin I posted previously.

Cheers

 

[John W]

The only connection that I can see between filling the fuel tank and the actual fuel pump is the fact that the breather pipe fitted to the filler neck is connected to the tank via a connection on the top of the fuel pump unit.
I believe there was a issue at some point off the breather pipe becoming twisted during installation at the factory when the cars were being built, which could possibly cause this problem.

Do have any more info regarding this upgrade.? I have done a site search and Land Rover recalls but cant find anything.The Part number and year from which the the new pipe was fiited would help to source a used one.

Cheers

Thanks Col,
John :thumb:

 

[AMcK]

Mark - as the car is dual fuel you can usually use this to eliminate the petrol pump as being the cause.
Most lpg systems have an emergency override to allow you to start the vehicle straight on to lpg thus eliminating the need for petrol. This usually consists of something like holding down the lpg switch while turning on the ignition and cranking the engine (exact method should be in lpg manual supplied when car converted). It will be harder to start on lpg when cold so may need a bit of cranking.

 

[BargePilot]

The Problem with filling up is the Filler Neck/Pipe/Breather not the Fuel Pump. I had exactly the same problem and the the New Type Filler Neck SOLVED the problem completely. Please read the Service Bulletin I posted previously.

Cheers

Sure thing! Thanks for posting that here, Col.