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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #1
P38 No Crank / No Start - troubleshooting with pictures - advice / guidance please?

Good Afternoon all

Had to have my P38 towed home after getting out and experiencing a no crank / no start while at a wrecking yard procuring parts for another vehicle... :shock: The irony itself is ironic...

I did buy and install a used rear view mirror right before the vehicle refused to start, but I'm hoping that the rear view mirror is not programmed to the BECM.. We even took that out and replaced it with the factory unit just to be sure. No Change.

Based on the FSM and Electrical Troubleshooting Manual - I noted that with the key in ignition position (III) there was NO Voltage instead of battery voltage for the first test.

You'll need to test voltage at Starting on this plug:

225707_10201131425752790_522849030_n.jpg

with a setup as shown if you're working alone, as many of us may be - in this way, with a light on the meter - you can see if when you crank the key you're getting battery voltage:

946822_10201131425872793_1103727915_n.jpg

In my case - I was not
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #2
Re: P38 No Crank / No Start - troubleshooting with pictures - advice / guidance pleas




So after that failed - I had a spare fuse box but that failed to provide success as well. What is the "WR Wire" - does that go to the top of the Starter Motor Solenoid? This is a brand new NAPA unit and they rarely have bad stuff out of the box.

Also note that the "Service Engine" light does illuminate for a couple of seconds when the key is turned which to me would indicate that the BECM and Engine Module are talking.

Thanks all for your direction and thoughts!

Brett.

So that led me to the Starter Solenoid Relay - which I replaced along with the Starter, per the Manual here:



Sadly - a new Starter Motor did not solve the problem :(

This is the hard to get to bolt - spray brake cleaner on it after you disconnect the battery - have a lot of patience use a combination of extensions to get back there. You may need to buy a couple of 1" extensions so that you don't wind up next to the motor mount.

 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #3
Re: P38 No Crank / No Start - troubleshooting with pictures - advice / guidance pleas

"Service Engine" light is coming on - though if I need to Re-synch due to it having a surge or other issue, communicating may not be successful?

417907_10201131626557810_353696106_n.jpg
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter #4
Re: P38 No Crank / No Start - troubleshooting with pictures - advice / guidance pleas

The "WR" Wire indicates that the White with Red Tracer has battery voltage when the vehicle is parked - so it seems more likely that the Sync Mate is going to solve my problem :| I kinda wish I'd had one already at this point. I just ordered it.
 

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Re: P38 No Crank / No Start - troubleshooting with pictures - advice / guidance pleas

I can't see the 'Check Engine' light ON, which indeed would indicate (if it's OFF) a sync issue.
 

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Re: P38 No Crank / No Start - troubleshooting with pictures - advice / guidance pleas

Also just to add and don't know if it changes anything. Your first test would have been inconclusive as that is meant to be backprobed, you're never going to get any voltage - battery or otherwise - showing on pin 1 NR because it's disconnected from the fusebox and relay that would/should have be providing it. The square box/arrow legend shows what you should do with regards taking measurements, which is explained in the introduction.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Re: P38 No Crank / No Start - troubleshooting with pictures - advice / guidance pleas

Thanks Twice Larry!! So the "Service Engine" light is NOT the correct light? Also - you're right again - I looked at the schematic info and yep - it needs to be back probed ("anal probed" as my teenage son refers to it...) so that, yes, there is voltage....

Appreciate the direction!

Brett
 

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Re: P38 No Crank / No Start - troubleshooting with pictures - advice / guidance pleas

No problem, The service light is set by default after 85,000 miles iirc, That "Check Engine" light should come ON on key II (this means that the GEMS ecu has received the code from the BeCM, checked it against its own stored one and then confirmed back to the BeCM it's all good to go) and then extinguish immediately on cranking (key III).
 

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Re: P38 No Crank / No Start - troubleshooting with pictures - advice / guidance pleas

GEMS and Bosch have different handshake between BeCM and ECM.
What engine do you have?

Copy from my other post...

Basically GEMS module will do one time hand shake with BECM, and it will prevent cranking if remobilization code is wrong.
BOSCH set up has no hand shake. BECM blindly broadcast the remobilization code every 144 ms. BOSCH system will crank because stater is controlled by BECM but it doesn't know if it had right remobilization code or not. But ECM will disable injectors to prevent starting.

Hope I don't have to go through this exercise.

Engine Control Module (GEMS up to 99MY)
When the vehicle is in an unarmed condition, the
BeCM will transmit and engine remobilisation code 48
ms after the ignition is turned on until the BeCM
receives an acknowledgement that the ECM has
received the correct code.
The ECM confirms receipt of the correct code by
signalling the BeCM to illuminate the check engine
warning lamp and allow engine cranking when
requested. The ECM also enables the engine fuelling
system on receipt of the correct code from the BeCM.

Engine Control Module (Bosch M5.2.1 from 99MY)
The remobilisation strategy is the same as that
described for 96MY Diesel vehicles. The BeCM
repeatedly transmits the remobilisation code to the
ECM at intervals of 144 ms. The code originates from
the ECM with each ECM having a different code. If a
new ECM or BeCM is fitted, TestBook must be used
to input the code to the BeCM before the ignition is
turned on.

A further feature of the system is ’robust
immobilisation’, fitted to European specification
vehicles. Upon arming the alarm, the EMS ECM
disables the injectors and the Body electrical Control
Module (BeCM) inhibits the crank relay (the vehicle
cannot be started until the alarm is disarmed).

Electronic Diesel Control (EDC)
The BeCM inputs a remobilisation code signal to the
EDC ECM when the vehicle is in an unarmed state.
On 95 MY vehicles the BeCM transmits a single
remobilisation code to the EDC ECM. When the
BeCM is satisfied that the vehicle is in an unarmed
state, engine cranking is permitted. There is no MIL
warning lamp illumination to confirm that the code has
been accepted.
On 96MY onwards Diesel vehicles, as on 95MY
vehicles, the EDC ECM does not respond to confirm
that the remobilisation signal from the BeCM has been
accepted. When the vehicle is in an unarmed
condition, the BeCM continually transmits the engine
remobilisation code at 144 ms intervals from the
ignition being turned on. The code originates from the
EDC ECM with each ECM having a different code. If a
new EDC ECM or BeCM is fitted, TestBook must be
used to input the code to the BeCM before the ignition
is turned on
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: P38 No Crank / No Start - troubleshooting with pictures - advice / guidance pleas

GEMS Engine, gents - so it seems like the SyncMate is the way to go. I ordered one from overseas but have yet to have them acknowledge the order so that I can pay for it and get it shipped...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Re: P38 No Crank / No Start - troubleshooting with pictures - advice / guidance pleas

Solution - Yes - it was solved by the SyncMate. While I'm bummed that I'm now the subject of the dreaded "Bit Rot" - I am actually glad that it happened within easy reach of a tow truck and not out in the middle of nowhere, NOW I have a SyncMate!
 

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Re: P38 No Crank / No Start - troubleshooting with pictures - advice / guidance pleas

But what was the problem? What was the solution? sometimes your problem/solution will help others, like me who have a "No Crank" "No Start" and no clue problem.
 

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Re: P38 No Crank / No Start - troubleshooting with pictures - advice / guidance pleas

In this specific instance...loss of [security] sync, which was fixed with a sync-mate.
 
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