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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In testing my Viscous Coupler pursuant to this thread: http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/7-...passing-viscous-coupler-bw-transfer-case.html

Hypothesis: If the VC was shot, one wheel when off the ground would spin freely WITH the prop shaft.

I followed these steps:

Vehicle in Neutral (or Park - same result), e-brake on, jack one FRONT wheel off the ground.

I applied force to the passenger side wheel and is spins FREELY?????:?

I can see the axle shaft on the passenger side spinning for sure. I can see the Axle shaft on the drivers side - or at least the CV boot. Is it possible to shred the Center Section without any grinding noises coming from within?

What I've not yet done is put it up on all 4's off the ground to check to see if the Front shaft is spinning - my evidence that it was NOT was largely anecdotal from being stuck in the snow and NOT seeing any divots with friction marks in the snow on the front...

Anyone seen anything like this before, or am I in new turf on this one? :)
 

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1970-1995 Range Rover Classic
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lift one wheel off the ground on the front. put the transmission in neutral. spin the wheel that is off the ground. Is the prop-shaft spinning? Can you turn the wheel that is off the ground?
 

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Just to add, to put the transfer box into neutral you have to put a 5amp fuse in fuse position 11. Your dash will bleep and show "Transfer Neutral" or something similar to confirm it's happened. Just remember to put it back once you've checked the VC. Sorry if you already know this. I checked mine a week ago and I could turn the front wheel that was off the floor with steady pressure. Mine has done 84K miles so I'm happy it's still working.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
@GetLost - yes sir - both in park and "N" with ebrake on or, one wheel up in the ground the "sky" wheel spins entirely freely...

New Test Results.
All 4 wheels up off the ground - Transfer Case in Neutral - Transmission in Neutral.

1.Both front wheels spin, even in OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS Without the front drive shaft spinning.

2. I can spin the front drive shaft by hand and both front and rear shafts spin - rear wheels turn but fronts do NOT.

Does this sound like the 3rd. member or front drive shafts being stripped? Next test is to pop the lower drain plug out and look for 1) metal in oil and 2) then check to make sure there ARE 3rd. member components in there...
 

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It looks like your front diff is blown, either the ring and pinion or the gears inside the diff. Only way to know (and fix) is to take the diff out I'm afraid.

Just to clarify, to test the visvous coupling you do NOT need to put the tranferbox in neutral, but you do have to put the gearbox in neutral, not park as this will effectively lock the output shaft.
With both wheels of the ground on an axle, turning one wheel will make the other spin in the opposite direction as long as the propshaft is not turning (= how an open diff works). Turning the propshaft should have both wheels turning in the same direction. Depending on friction in bearings, CVs etc, speeds might differ.

Filip
 

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sounds like you need to pull the 3rd member and see whats going on in there. almost sounds like the ring and pinion is stripped.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Very likely - I'm ditching this truck - I'm getting a Jeep. I love the BW case and the all time drive, but I think that I've plowed enough money getting it back on the road and sorting out it's issues around abuse and neglect. Thanks much!
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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IIRC, you bought this P38 to "flip" right?
Think I was one of the folks that said it wouldn't happen for a profit, but sad to see it ending that way non the less.
Pulling the diff is easy enough to do, all it costs is time and some Permatex Black RTV. May be worth a look IMHO.

Martin
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Nah - I was looking to hang onto it, I knew I was never going to turn a profit on it :) What cars really do unless you're building for a very narrow market? When it left us stuck in the dirt because the front wheels were not spinning at all, I made up my mind that as much as I've enjoyed it, it was time to go back to my primary vehicle line where I have more experience: Jeep :)
 

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its easy to fix the Diff on this then any Jeep. All you have to do is pull the third, then work on it on the bench. hell you can get a complete used third off ebay for nothing. upgrade to a used 4 pin. It'll take a few hours to swap out, but its cheaper then buying another Heep.

I've owned 3 Heeps by the way. LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So I wanted to update you good folks on what I've found so far. I pulled the front passenger side axle shaft out to look at it and see if the splines were damaged or worn out, causing the issues I describe above.

What I found was even more puzzling to be sure: NO SPLINES ON THE SHAFTS?

This does not look like it was cut or that it sheared - it looks for all the world like there was never any splines on them to begin with?

WP_20130126_002.jpg WP_20130126_004.jpg
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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Hmm, explains a LOT I say...
Snapped or uncut shafts?

Martin
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Great question - I was just about to post pictures of the Drivers Side axle shaft which HAS Splines on it. Honestly, until I get the 3rd. member out I may have to hold judgement / guessing on the Passenger side because it very well may be the most PERFECT shear I've ever seen.

Oddly enough, it would explain the lack of Really Bad Noises coming from the front diff, if indeed, that shaft sheared that perfectly... I'll make sure that I tie this off with results as I get them :)
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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If just the one side is like that, then no power to the front period, on open differential.
Taking the shafts out is 3/4 of the job of removing the 3rd member, so may as well go all the way now!

Martin
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Indeed - next up is getting the Drive Shaft down, then we get the 3rd. member backed out and we'll have the solution to our puzzle. THEN we can estimate the repairs... Man the PO was a doofus.. Pulled the airbags, put in a lift kit with springs and slapped on huge Mickey Tompsons - only to try to spin them on dry pavement and blow up what now looks like BOTH ends...
 

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This is a great storey. Hopefully you got it for a price that reflects that lack of decorum. I remember seeing part of a transmission tail shaft behind a SS396 after a dump the clutch run so it is surprising that a rr axle could shear like that looking similar in size Hope you find a good diff unit or 2 to replace.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Question - does the drag link have to come down to get the center section fully out?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Solved: "Perfect Shear"

Filed under: "Pictures or it did not Happen"

Ladies and Gents - I give you the answer to my problem. In this case - the front passenger side axle sheared off under extreme torque in such a way that the splines were left in the Center Section and the break was positioned in such a way that the remainder of the axle shaft was supported by the ouside of the center section bearing. The break was so clean that it left not a trace of shredded metal to indicate what happened, nor did it cause the broken shaft section to be driven away from the break into any gears to make Bad Noises to indicate what happened.

You're looking at a picture from the moment of discovery here:
WP_20130127_003.jpg
Yes - that is the end of the axle shaft from the Passenger Side in the previous post.

Here it slides cleanly out with a magnet - to me that indicates that there is no other damage inside the Center Section, else my thinking is that it would not have slid out and there would be damage on the splines, too. Please chime in with your thoughts if you think I should pull the whole thing out - I'm really not interested in taking any more bolts, nuts or screws out if I don't have to. It's been most of the weekend that I've been after this :)
WP_20130127_006.jpg


And here I'm sitting the sheared section on the "anvil" part of my bench vise to indicate how perpendicular this shear really is - I think we can all agree that a bench vise ships with a reasonably flat surface as the anvil - this is just amazing to me...
WP_20130127_011.jpg

That's everything - now to order a passenger side Axle shaft!

Thanks all!! Hope this helps someone else!
 

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Sweet. Get a new one. Slap it in and call it good. How did it break

sent with the crappy autoguide app
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
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