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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, I have just joined the P38 fraternity with my very recent purchase of a 1998 diesel variant... As per usual there are a few issues that need sorting and indeed may well be connected.
I bought it from a trusted friend who has told me it has had a new engine approx 30K miles ago and he had no issues with it running until he noticed a leak in the fuel injection pump about 3 months ago.
He duly had this rebuilt at a cost of around £800 and since then it started randomly losing power and on a few occasions has cut out on him. He then parked it on his drive and bought another vehicle to use, with the intention of maybe fixing the Rangie when he had the time. A few months later here we are...
Ok, so down to facts...
He tells me it runs rough sometimes and occasionally cuts out, it loses power going up hills, the sunroof leaks (When don't they), and one of the height sensors may be a little dodgy.
So I have taken a good look around and this is what I can see..
At this point I will mention that the engine is the non egr version....

1. The diesel over run pipes (All of them) are leaking - so I have ordered a new set of these.... all good there when they arrive...
2. The MAP sensor pipe under the air intake looks perished so i have put some new rubber pipe on this.... so we are good there...
3. I have noticed, that the turbo was covered in oil, (looking from under the vehicle).. and I think I can feel that the small rubber hose on the actuator is perished.. so will replace that, but it looks a nightmare to get to it and am not looking forward to this little job.... Any tips here would be cool.....
4. When I have the engine running (Sometimes it starts first time, sometimes it takes several attempts), I notice air in the fuel... There is a clear pipe from the fuel filter housing and the fuel injection pump and I can clearly see gaps in the fuel being delivered to the FIP. This is where I get out of my depth... Should there be gaps in the fuel delivered? OR is there an air leak somewhere between the tank and the filter housing?
5. There is a breather valve that exits the rocker cover next to the oil filler cap and it connects to the air intake. The end that pushes into the rocker cover has one of the plastic lugs snapped off. I would like to replace this but I cannot find anything online remotely like it... Can anyone suggest a suitable replacement? OR do i try and bodge something up?

Any help would be great as I feel a little out of my comfort zone and want to avoid chasing non issues.... I don't have access to a diagnostic machine at the moment as my friend that owns one is in the states for another three weeks... so I am on my own here.....

Thanks in advance for your help guys....

Simon
 

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It does sound like you’ve got air coming in somewhere on the fuel side, any parts needed, remember it’s a bmw engine.
one thing you will find, is how gutless they are, once running right, get it chipped or remapped, the difference is unreal.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply Chris, I also have a TD5 Disco and it has way more get up and go than the P38... I have ordered the over run pipes and a new fuel filter (Bearmach STC 2827) as this is the one on the vehicle currently. I was wondering if the O ring seal on the fuel filter may not be seating correctly therefore letting in air... We'll see when I change it.
I will keep the thread updated as I go along, I will try one possible fix at a time so then I know for sure what the problem was... no point changing loads of things at once because I won't learn anything.
 

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Sounds as though you are doing the right steps. The tubing for the spill back pipes can be bought from any motor factor. It is 3.2mm i.d. fuel hose. The end injector, No.6, has a rubber cap over one of the spill back connections on the injector. Either buy a genuine cap or they are often included as part of a general spill back pipe kit at motor factors.

Access to the turbo is via the wheel arch. Take off the wheel and inner plastic mudguard. There is a short oil spill back pipe from the turbo which is normally the source of oil leaks.

The plastic plug for the rocker cover breather may be the same as a BMW car if you can find the part no.

I would test the in tank pump before you go any further. Disconnect the fuel pipe at the FIP and run it into a jug. It should deliver a minimum of 180mls in 10 secs when you turn the key.
There shouldn't be gaps or bubbles in the clear fuel pipe to the FIP. It should be continuous. That is your problem I think. Fuel filter change and new seals is cheap and easy to do.
In tank pump replacement is a bit more involved.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thank you very much for the reply Dave, I would not have thought about going through the wheel arch.. top tip!..
I will check the delivery of the fuel from the in tank pump today as well as the turbo oil pipe and will update the thread...
Cheers
Simon
 

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Simon, if you are new to working on p38's or other Landrover models there are a few safety considerations:

Chock both back wheels in front and behind before you take the front wheel off. A brick either side of each wheel will do.

The handbrake on a p38 works on the back of the gearbox. It is very good but the car can rotate on the diff and come off the jack if you are not careful. Also use an axle stand. Don't work off the jack.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hi Dave, Thanks... I did indeed chock the wheels whilst working under the vehicle..
I got into the turbo area and the small rubber pipe on the actuator almost fell apart in my hands, so I think that would explain some of the lack of power going up hills as I presume the turbo actuator wouldn't be performing as it should.
I wasn't able to check the fuel flow, as foolishly, I had already removed the all the pipe work around the turbo for access, so hopefully the new pipe should arrive either Monday or Tuesday and once I have fitted these and its all back together, I will then test the fuel flow.
I did check the rubber plug on Injector No.6 and it seems new... Thanks Dave...
Will update this thread once I have tested the fuel flow..
Cheers All...
Simon
 

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Sounds like you still can test the lift pump by turning the key or remove the pump relay under the bonnet and run it “continuously” with a bit of wire. It’s one of the relays to the front of the car.

Your air problem is probably related to the bad overflow hoses you’re replacing, or the inlet or outlet of the fuel injection pump since that was removed and put back in place and afterwards this problem began.

When doing that it’s quite remarkable how hard it is to purge of air.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the info kretslopp....
To update on how things are going...
I have replaced the spill pipes today and the small rubber pipe on the actuator of the turbo. I put everything back together then it was onto the fuel delivery test.
I took off the clear pipe which enters the FIP from the fuel filter housing, turning the ignition on, we had NO fuel flow, when cranking the engine for 10 seconds, we had NO fuel flow.
I reconnected the fuel hose and started the car, it took several attempts to start, but when it did, the fuel was flowing in the clear pipe with gaps/bubbles...
So... I am not sure what is happening here... Does the FIP possibly draw fuel?...
I checked the inertia switch down inside the panel in the footwell, and I can depress it and it springs back up... hopefully this is normal operation of the switch.

Kretslopp... You mention removing the relay under the bonnet and use a bit of wire... which of the four connections do I connect together with the wire?

Can anyone suggest a way of purging the air properly? OR am I looking at a new pump in the tank?
I have checked the workshop manual but cannot seem to find a method in there....

If the latter, is it easier to drop the tank or as I have seen on youtube, people seem to lift the rear seats and cut a hole in the floor... cutting a hole seems a bit barbaric...

Any help is most welcome...
 

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cutting a hole seems a bit barbaric...
It is and dropping the tank is nothing like as difficult as people make out (as long as it isn't full...). It will also give you the chance to have a decent look at the underside that is normally hidden and the two fuel lines too.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the reply Richard.

I will try and drop the tank tomorrow, its only got about quarter of a tank of fuel in it, I will use a large trolley jack and blocks to lower the tank gently down.
Will update the thread tomorrow evening.

Cheers all...
 

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Thanks for the info kretslopp....
To update on how things are going...
I have replaced the spill pipes today and the small rubber pipe on the actuator of the turbo. I put everything back together then it was onto the fuel delivery test.
I took off the clear pipe which enters the FIP from the fuel filter housing, turning the ignition on, we had NO fuel flow, when cranking the engine for 10 seconds, we had NO fuel flow.
I reconnected the fuel hose and started the car, it took several attempts to start, but when it did, the fuel was flowing in the clear pipe with gaps/bubbles...
So... I am not sure what is happening here... Does the FIP possibly draw fuel?...
I checked the inertia switch down inside the panel in the footwell, and I can depress it and it springs back up... hopefully this is normal operation of the switch.

Kretslopp... You mention removing the relay under the bonnet and use a bit of wire... which of the four connections do I connect together with the wire?

Can anyone suggest a way of purging the air properly? OR am I looking at a new pump in the tank?
I have checked the workshop manual but cannot seem to find a method in there....

If the latter, is it easier to drop the tank or as I have seen on youtube, people seem to lift the rear seats and cut a hole in the floor... cutting a hole seems a bit barbaric...

Any help is most welcome...
Terminal 30 and 87. Bridge those either with a wire or a button as I did and the electric lift pump should run. Which in your case seems to be dead or not receiving power.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks Kretslopp... If I have a bulb inline on the wire I use on Terminal 30 and 87, with the ignition on, but engine not started, should the bulb light up?
Presumably, if the bulb does not light up, there is a power issue...
 

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Terminal 30 on this relay is constant battery voltage powered via fuse 39.
One should check voltage between terminal 30 and 85 on the relay.
Then you can bridge terminal 30 and 87 to see if the pump will run.

You should get yourself a multimeter.
And a read through the rave manual.

Page A6-6 through A6-8 in the electrical troubleshooting section is highly recommended.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Update for today...
I ran out of time to drop the tank, so I will be doing that over the next couple of days.
Electronically though... I tested the Fuel pump relay under the bonnet and this is sound (Hooked it up to 12v and got continuity on the other two pins).
The fuse in the same compartment is fine.
I tried to test the inertia switch and at the plug I got 12v on pins 1 and 3. So there is power getting to it. The switch itself tested ok for continuity on the bench with a voltmeter, but I am unsure if this is a definitive test of it.
At this point I can only presume there is power to the in tank pump. With this in mind, I took off the fuel filler cap and got someone to turn the ignition on when my ear was next to the fuel filler. I was hoping to hear the pump engage for a few seconds but nothing was heard.
So I am heading towards a dead pump I think... We'll see when I drop the tank over the next couple of days.
However, I still need to get rid of the air in the lines too... I have looked through the rave manual, but there doesn't seem to be a section for purging the air..
Any real world tips here would be great..

Cheers All...
 

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Yeah if it ran you would’ve heard it. I can hear it run while looking under the bonnet while the glow plug relay turns on the pump.

About the air entering the system.
Now that the electric lift pump isn’t working the FIP must suck fuel all the way from the fuel tank. As you’ve noticed the engine will start anyway but after prolonged cranking.

If one joint on the fuel line has failed ever so slightly the pump will suck air. Maybe that would never even happen with the lift pump in order that feeds the FIP with fuel.

When everything is checked and lift pump is working the FIP should be easier to purge of air from the clear inlet hose and then the outlet banjo. But it can be a pain in the arse to get rid of everything. After running the lift pump and it looks fine in the inlet hose you tighten everything and turn off the pump and then after a while an air bubble starts rising from the inlet hose. And back at it again.

Makes me wonder if it wouldn’t be a clever idea to put a non return valve on the suction hose as close to the tank as possible so the fuel will not spill backwards. I’ve done it on other engines with fuel tanks a couple of meters below the engine itself with success.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hi All, been a really busy couple of days so haven't had time to do much to the Rangie.
I bought an iCarsoft LRV2.0 which told me the Glow plug relay was dead so have ordered a new one of those and also ordered an new in tank fuel pump.
These should hopefully arrive by mid next week and should be fitted by the weekend, weather allowing... Then I will bleed the fuel system and we should be good to go in this area of work needing doing.
I will update the thread as I go along.
Cheers All....
 

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I replaced my in-tank pump a few months back. I just cranked the engine for about 30 seconds and it spluttered into life. There was no need to bleed it. It has a spill back to the tank so any bubbles get pushed through.
A few other practical points to note having just done it: There were no fittings included with my new pump so it is important to carefully salvage the old fittings. The compression fittings are 12mm x 1.0mm pitch, not the usual 1.5mm metric pitch. You will also need two 6mm brass olives.
A special tool is needed to unscrew the pump: http://www.paddockspares.com/fuel-pump-spanner.html
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hi Dave, Good job I checked the thread!!....
Good info... I will order the tool to unscrew the pump.. Those 6mm brass olives... did you get them as part of a kit?

Cheers
 

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