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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there,

The brakes of the P38 (´97, 2.5 DSE) have recently gone bad: They have no pressure on the pedal and no brake power on the wheels when the car is cold. The ABS, brake and Traction Control lamps all stay on for several minutes until the brakes are ok. After a long warm-up period of perhaps 5 minutes, the brakes are ok again, and stay ok until the car is left gets cold again. If I drive it frequently without long brakes I don't loose much if any brake power, but if it is left for a while, I will have no brake power on start up.
There are no sign of leaks in the system.
I changed the accumulator and thought that would do the trick, but it didn't.

Does anyone have a good idea of what I should do next?

With thanks, KH
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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1,851 Posts
Hi

Check the condition of your brake fluid and the filter inside the reservoir. Shine with a torch light onto the reservoir and see if your filter is clogged up. When the fluid is cold it will have more problem to pass through a clogged up filter then when hot.

http://rangeroverworld.blogspot.com...00-07:00&max-results=15&start=7&by-date=false

The above link is from website that has some more info on the brake fluid, filter and ABS pump relay.

Check also if your pump is running properly.

Regards

Jos
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi there,
Thank you so much for the reply. I will check the filter right away. But how to I check if the pump is running properly? I have read some suggestions to litem for it, but when my engine is running there is so much noise that I cannot hear if there is anything happening around the brake pump.
Knut
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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222 Posts
Hi I'm guessing from your description the pedal is ok but very hard to press and not going straight to the floor, because it is a diesel car you should have a brake servo vac pump maybe this isn't working from cold. In the morning try pulling the vac hose off the servo and see if it hisses, if it doesn't you probably have a vac leak either from the servo itself or the pipe and pump. if it does hiss, start the engine and see how much vacuum your pump is producing either putting your finger over the end( you should feel a healthy sucking on the end of your finger, but don't do it for long) or there will be little vac and this could be why the engine needs to run for a while before it builds up enough vac for the brakes to work with servo assist.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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3,952 Posts
It's a P38, it doesn't have a vacuum pump or servo, it's got the same fully powered system as the petrol ones. If it is taking that long for the pressure to come up enough for the lights to go out, it sounds like the pump is worn out. It's doing everything it should but just not producing enough pressure.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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222 Posts
Cheers Gilbert always willing to learn and not totally au fait with the diesels :thumb:
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi I'm guessing from your description the pedal is ok but very hard to press and not going straight to the floor, because it is a diesel car you should have a brake servo vac pump maybe this isn't working from cold. In the morning try pulling the vac hose off the servo and see if it hisses, if it doesn't you probably have a vac leak either from the servo itself or the pipe and pump. if it does hiss, start the engine and see how much vacuum your pump is producing either putting your finger over the end( you should feel a healthy sucking on the end of your finger, but don't do it for long) or there will be little vac and this could be why the engine needs to run for a while before it builds up enough vac for the brakes to work with servo assist.

Hi there. No the brake pedal has no pressure and travels easily to the floor. It is only after several minutes that it is hard enough and also then I get enough braking power.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
They are exactly the same as real ones except they've got some horrible, smelly, noisy, thirsty, underpowered engine in them.....
I don't agree. The diesels are very practical and good for utility: Great for towing and off road, you have lots of power at low torque, and enough power for driving a long haul on the highway. I have another car for driving fast, I don't need a LR/RR for that.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Gilbertd, I see you have LPG conversions. that is something I have been thinking about though - or biodiesel in my DSE. I would love to run on cleaner fuel. Are you happy with the LPG result? Are the engines responding any different?
Cheers, K
 

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I don't agree. The diesels are very practical and good for utility: Great for towing and off road, you have lots of power at low torque, and enough power for driving a long haul on the highway. I have another car for driving fast, I don't need a LR/RR for that.
i have a diesel and i am very happy with her :) and its manual :)
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Gilbertd, I see you have LPG conversions. that is something I have been thinking about though - or biodiesel in my DSE. I would love to run on cleaner fuel. Are you happy with the LPG result? Are the engines responding any different?
Cheers, K
I'm afraid I don't run LPG as it's cleaner, that's a secondary bonus, I run because it's half the price of petrol. It means I can run a glorious sounding V8 at less cost than the diesel equivalent (and not much more than my wife's 1.4 litre petrol hatchback). If converted and set up properly, they run exactly the same on gas as petrol, in fact, mine is smoother on gas but I suspect that is down to my petrol injectors being a bit clogged due to lack of use. When running on petrol (or diesel for that matter), the liquid fuel has to be atomised to mix it with the incoming air. No matter how good the injection system is, you still end up with tiny droplets of fuel but with LPG it is a vapour in the first place so will mix better with the air. Not only is it gaseous, it is a cleaner fuel (a less complex hydrocarbon and with no additives) so there is no bore wash and less carbon produced so the oil stays clean for much longer. While nobody to my knowledge has done any tests to prove that engines on LPG last longer, anecdotal evidence suggests they do. My P38 is currently showing 283,000 miles and a friend recently sold his LPG fuelled Jaguar XJ6 with 330,000 miles on it.

I just detest diesel engines and don't consider they belong in a car, particularly not a luxury car. I hate the noise (when did anyone ever rev a diesel and sit there with a big silly grin on their face just listening to the noise it makes?), the smell and the driving dynamics. Maintenance and repair costs are higher on diesels, particularly modern ones, too. Compare the cost of injectors, fuel pumps, glow plugs, etc with the cost of spark plugs, not to mention the DPF filters fitted to more modern ones. I bought my Classic LSE already on LPG (my first Range Rover after two previous LPG fuelled cars) from a friend who replaced it with a 2.5 DSE P38. He kept it two months, he hated it. Compared with the V8 it was gutless and, as he thrashed it to try to get similar performance to what he was used to, got around 25 mpg. The V8 Classic did around 14-15 mpg but as LPG is half the price of petrol, it worked out to the equivalent of 28-30 mpg on petrol, or 30-32 mpg on diesel (as diesel in the UK is more expensive than petrol). I use mine for towing across Europe and it will cruise at 70-75 mph with around 2.5 tonnes hooked up to the back and if I'm off road then I just put the auto box into low ratio. The diesel may produce slightly more torque but with the gearbox doing the work, you don't need it.

I can't see myself ever running anything not on LPG as a daily driver in the future. Although I do have two toys that I will still leave on petrol. After all, converting a 600 cc Yamaha might be difficult and I'd rather not convert my 2.8 twin turbo V6 Maserati. So although I have something for when I want to go really fast, but I'd still like to be able to make decent progress in the Range Rover.
 
G

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I have a DSE autobox, it ain't a traficlightsprinter, but more than capable to keep up with normal trafic, even when towing 3000+kg trailer with the offroad HSE on it.

Thirsty?? 8-9 km/liter in stead of the usual 6 with a V8...... and (in my country anyway) diesel cost per liter significantly less. To LPG conversion..... approoved system would cost 4000-4500 euro, 10% more fuelconsumption (energy in a liter LPG is approx 10% lower than the energy in a liter petrol) so still not much cheaper and need to drive a lot befor system is earned back....

besides...the V8's sound invites sportive driving which makes it even thirstier:lol:

The vacuumpump on a diesel P38 has only one function: Providing the vacuum for operating the EGR valve...thing else is connected to it (and this only after 1999, before it did not have a EGR and no vacuumpump either)


as far as the brakeproblem goes, i guess the shot on a worn brakepump would be the right shot
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Hi

I have yet to see a worn brake pump. I think it is more restriction in the suction that causes the problem.
The info that once it builds up the pressure it performs ok does not happen when the pump is the problem.

Regards

Jos
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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They are exactly the same as real ones except they've got some horrible, smelly, noisy, thirsty, underpowered engine in them.....
Diesels are less affected by water splashing in the engine bay. I had a V8 that would completely shut down if I would go through a puddle in the street too fast. I thought these things were designed for off-road.
My diesel Discovery, on the other hand, has as much torque and acceleration as my 4.6 in my RR.
But it's also not a 200 or 300. It's the HS2.8TGV.
Incidentally, I'm having the same brake issue with my RR. Considering my driveway is on an incline, I either wait for brakes, or wait for cars to pass.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
02 Range Rover Westminster
98 Discovery LE Tdi
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hi

I have yet to see a worn brake pump. I think it is more restriction in the suction that causes the problem.
The info that once it builds up the pressure it performs ok does not happen when the pump is the problem.

Regards

Jos
Thank you, that is a good tip. I will check on the filter in the fluid reservoir, first.
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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4,227 Posts
You can actually buy the reservoir as a separate part aswell - part number STC2780.

I don't think it is particularly cheap to buy - but if the filters are clogged (they aren't really servicable - I tried cleaning my one at the bottom of the tank and had limited success) it could be a worthwhile investment to change it - as buying a second hand replacement modulator/booster block could have the exact same problem.

Marty
 
G

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dealerprice in the netherlands 202,80 euro incl. VAT.........and they get swapped now and then I guess, as it is in stock at three dealers in NL......
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Hi

Try cleaning first. With two small screw drivers you can push the edge of the filling cap filter inwards and remove it.
Take out the fluid and pop it off the valve-block after unclipping the electric connection of the level switch. With water and detergent you can wash out the dirt.
I did a few and you can get them cleaned up nicely. I used some industrial degreaser and compressed air as well with the one I did at work. When you shine with a torch light under the reservoir you can see the progress.

Regards

Jos
 
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