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Discussion Starter #1
2000 P38 4.0l, I keep getting a P1170 check engine light - (Manufacture Control - Fuel air metering)
Rave doesn't list it and arbitrary websites say its a MAP sensor or don't list it for Rover.
Any suggestions please?
 

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2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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It is a Land Rover specific code. In other words, any other manufacturer listing the code would be irrelevant.

Have you checked it here?
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29550

I'm guessing you may have a Motronic EMS, and that system has more DTC's than the GEMS system.

EDIT - Just seen it is a 2000MY so it is Motronic. If you still have difficulty and there is no one else who can help, consider going onto the LR GTR and finding out the specifics of the code, using the search function based on your model and year.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you very much for your response Rich,
Yes it is a Motronic - no-one else seems to have an answer, and I can't find a listing anywhere, so could you please explain what the Land Rover GTR is please (I know not of these things)?

By the way are you Kenyian? - the flag is a bit of a clue.

Rich998a said:
It is a Land Rover specific code. In other words, any other manufacturer listing the code would be irrelevant.

Have you checked it here?
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29550

I'm guessing you may have a Motronic EMS, and that system has more DTC's than the GEMS system.

EDIT - Just seen it is a 2000MY so it is Motronic. If you still have difficulty and there is no one else who can help, consider going onto the LR GTR and finding out the specifics of the code, using the search function based on your model and year.
 

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2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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I call Kenya 'Home'. Sad but true, I know.

The GTR is a much more detailed 'RAVE'. Essentially, it is the knowledge base for Land Rover which includes more areas than RAVE ever did. Unfortunately, it is subscription only, so provided the **** servers are working, you have to pay to access the information. A quick search has come back with the following description for P1170:

Lambda sensor aging tv bank 1 Drive cycle C:Signal out of range - above maximum/below minimum


Range Rover (LP) from 1999 model year
Bosch Motronic M5.2.1 EMS
Oxygen sensor aging (characteristic shift) upstream bank A (front left hand sensor)
DTC
Description

P1170
Lambda sensor aging tv bank 1 Drive cycle C:Signal out of range - above maximum.

P1170
Lambda sensor aging tv bank 1 Drive cycle C:Signal out of range - below minimum.


Possible Causes:
1.Deteriorated upstream oxygen sensor.
2.Deteriorated downstream oxygen sensor.
1. Deteriorated upstream oxygen sensor.

POSSIBLE FAULTS

The Motronic ECM has internally diagnosed that the switching characteristics of this oxygen sensor have degraded to a point where exhaust emissions will be increased.

This fault is usually caused by the aging of the sensor in normal operation, however, this effect can be accelerated if the sensor has been contaminated with oil or other surface contamination.


2. Deteriorated downstream oxygen sensor.

POSSIBLE FAULTS

The Motronic ECM has internally diagnosed that the characteristics of the upstream oxygen sensor have degraded to a point where exhaust emissions will be increased, however, this fault can sometimes be caused by the failure of the downstream sensor on the same bank causing an incorrect fault diagnosis. Also if both oxygen sensors (upstream and downstream) are flagged as faulty then the fault may in fact be only in the downstream sensor.

The fault is normally caused by the aging of the sensor(s) in normal operation, however, the effect can be accelerated if the sensor has been contaminated with oil or other surface contamination.
Hopefully, this solves your DTC. :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Nothing sad about being Kenyian - I call Zambia home, so we are almost related I suppose.

Thank you so much - is GTR something anyone can log into? I've never heard of it.

I suspect it must be a loose wire (on a Rover - never!) or as you say a fouling or dying O2 sensor - funny thing is, I live in Los Angeles so driving hours a day is normal and if I drive the highways it won't come on for months, unless I am in a traffic jam and drive at 20 miles an hour on the highway for 10 minutes then the MIL ignites.

Recently I have been working locally so only drive on city streets and it comes on daily, generally after several miles of driving. Sometimes it skips a day. Go figure? Expensive items to replace all 4 - any way of testing them with a meter?
 

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2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Well the code does relate to Bank 1 or Bank A which is the 1, 3, 5, 7 cylinders, so you'd only be looking at one upstream and one downstream rather than all 4. However, if you can find someone locally who can use a Picoscope or other automotive scope, then they can check the functioning on the sensor in situ, that way finding the exact faulty one.

Also check the HO2 multiplug for contamination, damage or corrosion.

However, if you intend to keep the car, perhaps confirm the HO2 sensor(s) is the problem, and then consider changing all 4 at once, just so the problem stays away long term. Changing all 4 should take less than an hour (if all goes to plan more like half an hour), but shop around for the sensors. Look on the main site for alternative sources of parts. Very often there is a much cheaper OEM part available.

From the Main Site:
Oxygen Sensors:
The US spec 4.0/4.6 has 4 Oxygen Sensors(one ahead of and one behind each catalytic converter), so replacing them all can get expensive. NOTE: If you get an aftermarket replacement, make sure it is a full 4-wire version, not a "4 wire to 3 wire" version -- see below. One useful source for looking up the sensors specified for the 4.0/4.6 is the manufacturer's website, NGK -- at www.ngk.com.

OEM "plug and play" replacements are available at The Rover Connection; the genuine O2 sensors for the 95-97 models (ERR1834) can be ordered from them for about $220 each, but they can supply aftermarket ones for $130. Sensors for the later models (AMR6244) are $180 from the same supplier. The lowest price I have seen for the OEM style plug and play sensor is $115 from automedicsupply.com (earlier model years); the lowest price I have found for the 1998 & up models is at Atlantic British which has OEM plug & play O2 sensors for $77.95 for the front ones (MHK100940) and $69.95 for the rear(MHK100930)!! (select their exhaust" category).


Michael Nix had the "Check Engine" light come on recently on his wife's 96 Range Rover. A trip to the dealer revealed confirmed that the engine had a slow oxygen sensor. Instead of paying the $275 from the dealer, he got one at a Nissan dealer for $90 (part number: 22690-85E10). He spliced the Range Rover connector on to the Nissan sensor and it fit perfectly. Three out of the four wire colors even matched up. I recently found this part by searching for its part number at Auto Parts Warehouse for $58.43!!

Alan Rawson delved more deeply into the O2 sensor problem on his 96 RR, adding substantially to our collective knowledge. He found the dealer price had dropped to $130. He found NAPA offers a similar item but with different connectors, their part # OS 778 (I recently looked it up and priced it at $81.99; it looks like the Nissan part mentioned above). Alan initially chose a Nissan part by NTK, which he found for $56 at a web company in southern CA., www.automedicsupply.com (their part # 250-2505). However, this replacement was a curious one with 4 wires at the connector reducing to 3 at the sensor. The vendor thought it would work fine, since the 4th wire is just data ground. All appeared to be OK at first, but Alan found that when the wires to one sensor were sheared off during an off-road trip the GEMS computer could not detect the problem (no light came on) and gas mileage went down the tubes. After further research, Alan found another part by NTK for $89.99 (current price $114.95 as of October 2003) which has the OEM connector (www.automedicsupply.com part number 250-8004) listed for the 4.0, quoted to replace OEM #70399A-- that number was stamped on his old original ones!). The 4th wire provides data ground, and with the semiconductor circuits used in the GEMS computer it appears to be important to have this separate ground, so the computer can detect failure of an individual sensor through the ground circuit. Ron Beckett checked the NGK manufacturer's website at www.ngksparkplugs.com and reports that their part number for the O2 sensor with the right plug for 95-98 models is 25017. Their UK site calls it a OTD3J-5C1, number of wires 4, connector style 57, lead length 521 mm. On Australian models a 3 wire unit is specified, OTD3G-3A1, with connector style 55.


Lowest Price (95-97 models): After scouring different sources for these parts, the best deal I have found so far was from a part number search for the Nissan equivalent 22690-85E10 at Auto Parts Warehouse (their part# C5010-65234) and found it there for $58.43 (free shipping). (To do a part number search on their site, go to the "Replacement Catalog" link on their main page). This is a Bosch part# 13388, and is the 4 wire version but with two connectors -- the wires can easily be spliced to the single Range Rover connector from your old part. For "Direct Fit" replacements with the OEM connector, the lowest price I have found is $114.95 at automedicsupply.com.(Click on year and make "Land Rover").
1998 & up models: the lowest price seems to be at Atlantic British which has OEM plug & play O2 sensors for $77.95 for the front ones (MHK100940) and $69.95 for the rear(MHK100930)!! (select their exhaust" category).
I've never been as far south as Zambia, not yet anyway... :thumb: TZ was a far south as I ever got in the Range Rover. :oops:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for all the help - I always like to do things properly so replacing them all is the best way to go - they have come down in price dramatically since I last looked a year ago - and Atlantic British are having a huge sale on them till the end of the month so I can replace all 4 for about $200 - can't beat that - thanks so much for your help.
The car has done 155,00 miles so I suppose they are due for a change - and my mpg has taken a dive recently so it'll help all round.
I really am very grateful to you.
Best regards.
 
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