Not Again!! More motor troubles!

3671 Views 21 Replies 8 Participants Last post by p38arover, May 15, 2010

81stubee

Discussion Starter · Apr 5, 2010

i'm wondering what i've done to deserve the luck i've had with this car, or more so the people who worked on it.

It appears that over the weekend i've lost a lifter motor only done 20000kms, and it is misfiring on #3 or #5. There is a ticking at idle and a bit light miss that gets louder and stronger with RPM increase. It also gets more violent on heavy throttle. On the 300km trip home it was getting to a point I was only doing 80kmh up eastlink.

Faultmate is throwing up:
- P0331, KNOCK SENSOR 2 CIRCUIT RANGE/PERFORMANCE (BANK 2)
- P0116, ENGINE COOLANT TEMPERATURE CIRCUIT RANGE/PERFORMANCE PROBLEM

A quick run down on my story so far....

18 months ago at 260000kms, Upon investigating a missfire when cold, i stripped the motor to find that it had slipped a liner.
- Heads were sent off to be pressure tested, via a good friend of mine. They came back tested, rebuilt and ported. Only $700 so I could live with that.
- Block and heads were sent to TRS in adelaide to be rebuilt with top-hats, new pistons with 9.55:1 compression and PC216 cam.
- 6 weeks later (meant to be 2 weeks) motor arrived back.
- I installed motor
- 24 hours after installing motor the head for #1,3,5,7 LHS sprung a welch plug, TRS wanted nothing to do with it, so I had the people who did the heads originally fix the problem. After arguing that they were not to put anything in the cooling system they reluctantly removed the head repaired and replaced. They also did a pox job with silicon everywhere.

Now, the new motor has always had a couple of ticks at cold start up. TRS have consistently (6 times) told me that it would bed in and go away. Within the last 2 months the tick has developed into a very light miss, only once or twice if any.

As of last friday it was a lot worse, and after sitting for three days in alpine temps, it was really bad this morning. Once I was on the bitumen I realised how bad it was. Low power and a miss when accelerating. 300kms later its really bad.

Any ideas where to go from here? I've really had enough.

Stu

P.S. Lets not talk about the new gearbox that won't shift properly when cold.

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1 - 20 of 22 Posts

viperover

· #2 · Apr 5, 2010

Im hoping new head bolts were installed when engine was re assembled.

Misfire on 2 cylinders, have you checked coils.
Im mystified by the lack of quality workmanship world wide, complaints seem to be erratic with different reasons.
Cause: Customers dont want to pay but thats not everyone, most of my customers want the best there is and I give it to them, seems you may have to dig down a little to solve what really has been done

diff

· #3 · Apr 6, 2010

Sounds like you have had more than your share of problems. I am curious if you followed the mfg recommendations on break-in for the cam and lifters. If so then the engine assembler should ante up but I can see their reluctance if they were not on hand as the engine was started. I am curious as to what kind of noise would diminish on break-in. That sounds like a good line to me but doesn't help you. I can only hope for your sake that you can get thru it and there are lots of us who reaslly do empathise with your situation.

ray:

Selby P38

· #4 · Apr 6, 2010

viperover said:
Im hoping new head bolts were installed when engine was re assembled.

Misfire on 2 cylinders, have you checked coils.
Im mystified by the lack of quality workmanship world wide, complaints seem to be erratic with different reasons.
Cause: Customers dont want to pay but thats not everyone, most of my customers want the best there is and I give it to them, seems you may have to dig down a little to solve what really has been done

Yes he put studs in ,not the P38 crap head bolts. :thumb:
Sounds like your cam may of gone south.
check plugs, coils and did you replace leads?
do a compression test.
Hope your not using synthetic oil in your motor still ?
Try 20/50w or 15 w/50w,with 1/2 litre of Lucus .
Looks like you may need to get engine anyized and see what its not doing ,that will tell for sure if you have to strip and replace lifters cam rockers again :crybaby2:
There is a lot of poor Quality cams and even with a lot of research you may of got stung used the wrong oil cheap parts used by rebuilder.
Was the tappet assembly all new as well?
Cylinder 2 left bank ,allways get tappet noise from that side.Gets back to when head was removed which side was it left or right?
If it was the left head then i whould think it maybe for fitting of the ttappets ,refering back when you first posted the question on lifter noise.
Getting back to that i refered you to the RPI guide to fitting rocker gear as your heads would of been shimmed your rockers may not of been done properley buy the the guys her stuffed your welsh plug??????

Just do what you can as above including a service by you , then if no change take it to be dynostic .Its not a daily drive any more so you can get your hands dirty and start with the left rocker cover and see if it has desinigrated yet?

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81stubee

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 6, 2010

just pulled out the crank sensor and found chunk missing. Will put it on a cro and look at the waveform.

Good idea about whether the rocker gear was put right the second time, i was thinking the same thing myself.

Stu

P38HSE

· #6 · Apr 6, 2010

Selby P38 said:
Hope your not using synthetic oil in your motor still ?
Try 20/50w or 15 w/50w,with 1/2 litre of Lucus .

Hope you don't mind me butting in (?) but why shouldn't one use synthetic oil still? I'm about to do my first oil change since owning the P38 and assumed by putting in a good synthetic that I'd be doing an old engine a favour?

I've maybe missed something? Thanks.

81stubee

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 6, 2010

Just quickly as there is another thread on the topic but..

The lifters on the rover v8 are convex slightly which allows them to rotate and wear more evenly. The theory being that fully synthetic oils are too slippery and do not allow this to occur.

I'm not swayed either way on the discussion. The engineers at Mobil do not agree with this and would be quite comfortable putting mobil 1 full synthetic in my engine, but they believe it's a bit excessive, so they reccomend the next step down.

Stu

81stubee

Discussion Starter · #8 · Apr 10, 2010

Removed a rocker cover today as it's relatively unobtrusive. It appears that all the exhaust pushrods on that bank are loose, by loose i mean, i'm surprised one hasn't fallen out, there is 5mm+ of movement up and down not to mention side to side. 8-0= 8-0=

When I turn the motor over the exhaust valves would barely open. This would explain the lack of power I have been having.

My mechanic mate reckons it's either several collapsed lifters or a cam problem. I'm taking it over to Les Richmond next week.

The engine builder in adelaide, has said that nothing happens until LRA have inspected the engine. They then said that if it is there problem the whole car has to be shipped back to Adelaide. WTF Why the whole car??? My better half has said there is no way in hell they are getting the whole car :snooty: , last time we sent them a crate, they kept it for several months until i threatened legal action.

Stu

viperover

· #9 · Apr 10, 2010

Loose rockers means failed rockers, metal insert has collapsed, bet they were crap BRITPART supplied parts, I recently had this on my very own Rangie and Im bloody furious cos I hate cheap knock off junk thats been supplied to me as "good quality" must be a bad batch

Selby P38

· #10 · Apr 11, 2010

G'day Stubbe, Well what can i say ,you will need to check the other side that will comirm if its rocker lifters or cam failer, good luck fix it yourself get it right with the right parts.
This would be the reason that your transmission is not working properly, sick motor will give that senorio in your gear changes.
Keep us posted
Regards Graeme

81stubee

Discussion Starter · #11 · Apr 11, 2010

Selby P38 said:
fix it yourself get it right with the right parts.

Not going to let them get away with that. I'm not spending any more money on a motor that was built wrong to start with. I suspect a cam problem as that would explain the reducing power over time. AS the cam wore out the valve opening got smaller.

Stu

Selby P38

· #12 · Apr 11, 2010

G'day Stubee, so you have comfirmed by removing other rocker cover and that the cam is shagged?

81stubee

Discussion Starter · #13 · Apr 11, 2010

Yeah, just removed other cover, it's the same deal on the other side just not as bad. I currently have a flexible camera down there at the moment, so will hopefully post a couple of pics/vids. Just having trouble seeing the cam as the camera head is about 40m long and i'm having trouble twisting it around.

Stu

81stubee

Discussion Starter · #14 · Apr 11, 2010

I can confirm that the cam is rooted. What do you mean exhaust lobe?? there is none.

Hopefully videos are on there way!

Stu

81stubee

Discussion Starter · #15 · Apr 11, 2010

I've uploaded a video to youtube of the camshaft in action. IMHO it appears that one of the lobes provides no where near the lift of the adjacent lobe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DGnGnju_90

Any thoughts ???

Stu

Selby P38

· #16 · Apr 11, 2010

81stubee said:
I've uploaded a video to youtube of the camshaft in action. IMHO it appears that one of the lobes provides no where near the lift of the adjacent lobe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DGnGnju_90

Any thoughts ???

Stu

Well defiantley cam is shagged.
Why is the question
1, poor quality cam
2, Run in proceedure
3, Assembly by rebuilder
4,rocker assembly fitted wrongly refitted head

If the lobes on cam are evident worn on both bank sides it would exspell No 4, then it comes down to the rest.
Check rocker clearance on what is left as per RPI preceedure and see what numbers come up?

Rich998a

· #17 · Apr 14, 2010

Any further developments with the issues, Stu?

ray:

81stubee

Discussion Starter · #18 · Apr 15, 2010

No, not as yet. I've put it all back together given it a wash and its now ready to go to LRA. I really want to get all the paperwork sorted out before i take it there as once there i'm not bringing it back till fixed. Last time I had to fight for nearly two months to get a crate back, so imagine what they're like with a whole car.

Does anyone else agree with my thoughts about the cam, from looking at the video??

Stu

bonnychoo

· #19 · Apr 15, 2010

81stubee said:
Removed a rocker cover today as it's relatively unobtrusive. It appears that all the exhaust pushrods on that bank are loose, by loose i mean, i'm surprised one hasn't fallen out, there is 5mm+ of movement up and down not to mention side to side. 8-0= 8-0=

When I turn the motor over the exhaust valves would barely open. This would explain the lack of power I have been having.

My mechanic mate reckons it's either several collapsed lifters or a cam problem. I'm taking it over to Les Richmond next week.

The engine builder in adelaide, has said that nothing happens until LRA have inspected the engine. They then said that if it is there problem the whole car has to be shipped back to Adelaide. WTF Why the whole car??? My better half has said there is no way in hell they are getting the whole car :snooty: , last time we sent them a crate, they kept it for several months until i threatened legal action.

Stu

Is there a possibility that an oilway on one side of your engine is blocked? Then the affected side would be effectively starved of lube.

81stubee

Discussion Starter · #20 · Apr 27, 2010

bonnychoo said:
Is there a possibility that an oilway on one side of your engine is blocked? Then the affected side would be effectively starved of lube.

That would make a lot of sense. They may have got some dirt in there during the rebuild and its gradually been moving until it got to a point where its got caught and reduced the oil flow to that part of the engine. The motor has always sounded a bit rattly in the top end.

Anyway, car was assesed by LRA last week. They are not sure, but have been given permission by the engine builder to dissassemble the top of the engine to assess the damage. They were really busy and couldn't look at the car until May 10 so I will take it back then. But it appears that they are on my side. They also believe that the engine builder should have warrantied the heads no matter what. Will have to wait and see.

In the meantime i'm having my alternator rebuilt, to see if that fixes some of the EAS fidgeting. As i've noticed that the car rises a little sometimes when you rev the motor.

Stu

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