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Hi everyone. I have read all I think I can in the forums but can't seem to solve my problem. I have a 92 RRC, 3.9. It initially would die and idle poorly at stop lights. So replaced idle control valve. Still not a perfect idle, so cleaned MAF, still idle issue, so replaced MAF. At this point it would start up fine but run a little rough at idle. While running the ignition module got unbearably hot, so turn car off. Next morning wouldn't start. So assumed it was the ICM, ordered a new one with a remote relocation kit, from Altantic Pacific Rover. Still no start. Then started to check for spark. No spark at the spark plug wire to manifold test. No spark at coil wire to manifold test. Replaced coil. Still no spark. Checked my main relay and fuel relay for power, there's power. Don't know how to check relay switches so replaced them with new ones. Checked all fuses under passenger and drivers seat. I am getting power to coil, actually on both the negative and positive side (not sure this is normal, is it?) Parts I decided to replace so far are distributed, ICM, Coil, MAF, and Relays, not specifically for this no spark issue but over the last few weeks. I am getting fuel to intake but haven't tested pressure yet. No sure that would result in a no spark issue. I'm in this abusive relationship as a fellow RRC owner posted. This is our group therapy for loving what punuishes us for loving it. Any thoughts.. What am I missing?
 

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OOf i can't remember my 93. My 89 was all separate systems. I think the 93 was too. IE i completely removed the fuel injection and went to an edlebrock mani and carb. The whole injection system and wiring came out and had no effect on ignition. So if your coil has power and its new. And its wired properly. And you have no spark from leads. Then its not getting pulses. Which leads me to that ignition module on the distrib. Ive worked on them a LOOOng time ago. Snoop around there see if you get any closer.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks ihbresident. Although I have checked and replaced the Ignition module I think your on to something. The ignition module is new. Do you think the old module that overheated the night before that resulted the night before this whole problem started, shot the condenser in the distributor?
 

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There is a test sequence in the manual for the ignition system. Don't assume you have fixed the ignition module - I bought a kit in a box marked Lucas. It had a short in the wiring and ate the new module in 4-500 kms. There is a test for the ignition module - check voltage between battery positive and HT coil negative - should be zero volts - crank the engine - voltage should go up - if not module is a problem - section 86 mine is pp 19 - 21
 

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I just reread your orig post. You need to find out which wire on your neg coil terminal is providing positive. I dont think any coil can work like that. Make sure its not just plugged into the wrong gang of coil terminals. I am away from my service manuals til thurs. But chk that.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you guys. I checked my coil wires. I have the white wire (power from ignition , the white wire from IAM and black wire from resister all connected to positive side of coil. On negative terminal of coil I have the white with black stripe wire from IAM and the white wire that is wrapped with black cover/pvc that shares the wire loom as the connector to my MAF connected to negative terminal. Does that sound correct? Atlantic Pacific land rovers IAM instructions directed me to that wiring procedure, but I dont think I'm supposed to get my light tester to light up at both negative and positive terminals of the coil with the ignition on. Am I right?
Rtkraken, thanks for PDF, I will download and follow procedure ad well.
 

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You should have current through the coil with the ignition on - what happens is the ignition module shuts off the current when it gets a signal (there are eight little magnets on a rotor inside the distributor that give it a signal) and the collapsing current in the primary coil generates a high voltage in the secondary coil which is what produces the spark. If you crank the motor you should see the voltage changing if the ignition module is working.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well gentlemen,
-Tested my coil to check continuity. Getting zero resistance between + and - terminals. Tested both terminals to center coil tower, reading around 7500 ohms. So coil is good.
-Just to rule it out, I checked air gap in distributed at the pick up. It's firmly at .010 using feeler gauge.
- Tested new Ignition module. Voltage from battery positive to negative terminal is at zero. Then cranked engine and voltage increased accordingly on voltemeter.
-I've followed all wires to my relays, checked for power or shorts. Replaced relays with new ones just to rule those out. Relays click when switching ignition off. So I think those are fine. I haven't measured fuel pressure although I am pulling fuel to injector line. But I think I should still get spark even if there is an issue on the fuel side. Checked all fuses under both seats. Is there anything under dash I should test? Fuse, relay? The manual doesn't say there is.
Any ideas out there..help!
Btw..if I can't get this thing to fire up, wife said rangie will have to go or she will, and I'll miss her terribly..my wife that is of :)

Still no spark at HT or LT wires!
 

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Test the coil positive and negative to battery negative with the ignition on - should be less than 0.1V compared to battery voltage.

No spark at HT wire? You are getting switching and the coil checks out? Next suspect is the HT lead - do you have a spare? You can see if you are getting a spark out of the coil by removing the HT lead, poking a screwdriver in the end and using another screwdriver to short to the chassis. If you don't get a shock or see a spark jumping, I'd be thinking about the coil. If you do get a spark etc then you need to work your way down e.g. spark at the rotor (Y/N), spark at the cap (Y/N), spark at the plug lead (Y/N), spark at the plug. As soon as you get to a point where there is no spark, the problem is uphill somewhere.

Some of your idle problem suggests a crook lead as sometimes they break down when hot when they are on the way out.

PS my missus acts unreasonable sometimes as well, not sure how to calibrate her attitude as she didn't come with a service manual.
 

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It's starting to sound like the issues is with the fuel system. Have you tried starting with ether/starting fluid? I had a similar situation in my '95, turns out my fuel lines were rotting from within and kept plugging the fuel filter and pump. If it starts with ether, then you know it's a fuel system issue, either not enough pressure, clog somewhere or bad fuel pump.

Disregard - just saw that you said no HT spark. So to be clear, when you do Test 3, the voltmeter reading does not increase? What are your Test 4 results, i.e., is the pick-up resistance between 2k and 5k ohms? If so, your new IAM may be bad.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
johnno- Not sure why I didn't think of putting a screw driver in coil tower and checking for spark. With the ignition on, I put screwdriver in center tower of coil and grounded it against chassis, no spark! I also checked voltage from battery negative to coil terminal positive, it's at 0.11v less that battery volt, not 0.1 less than battery voltage. So even though the coil is brand new, it may be bad.

pl626- the Ignition amplifier is new also, but I will retest as you suggested. New parts don't necessarily mean they work out of the box.

Johnno, love your tag about "landrovers turn drivers into mechanics"

Thanks Gentleman.
 

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The tests don't sound too bad to me - Maybe revisiting your wiring as you discussed above? I don't have my car here otherwise I would go and check for you. Maybe someone can photograph a remote module set up and post it for you.
 

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Ive been where youre at. Best thing you can do is finely inspect what youve done. Disconnect what youve connected. Test the components as individual components not as part of a system. As mentioned above you could have a wire going bad. Old Lucas electrical problems start with bad grounds... usually. Bad grounds and corrosion cause wiring connections and components to heat up. The heat breaks down insulation. Wires turn black internally so that every strand in a braid has a black coating inside the insulation. Then crimped connections fail. In your repairs try to solder every wire to lug connection you can instead of just crimping them. And use quality heat shrink over that. And make sure lug connectors stay clean and brite. Get a handfull of stiffnesses and sizes of wire brushes and make it something to do to pass time regularly. Grey is not clean. Brite is clean.

Ive pulled those distribs out before and reset. Its shouldn't be necessary. It was a point where I had started to loose my mind. And then youll wonder if you set it back in correctly. You have a bad wire, a failed component, or something improperly hooked up. If the battery will turn the starter fast enough it will fire the motor. Aside from that black box and the pickup amplifier thats a standard ignition. So all coil and wiring setups you read about online should fit.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
irbresident- Thank you for your comments. I am at the point of losing my mind, but took a day off to re-group and clear my mind so I could start to think it through again from the beginning. I will check all wires I tampered with for good ground and other connections. I have since ordered another new coil since I was not getting it to short when grounding the center HT tower to the chassis. Everything is new, MAF, coil, amplifier, alternator, distributor. The other thing I've read that can go wrong is the crank positioning sensor. Do you think it may be that. Should I replace that as well to rule it out.
 

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I dont remember how that truck uses the crank position sensor. Meaning where the signal would effect the ignition & does it kill the spark. But typically a cps system is a plug inserted in the crank that the sensor "sees" go by. So it should also be testable separately. I can tell you when they fail the truck definitely will not start. How it accomplishes this via no fuel or no spark I do not know. One would hope that would throw a code on the display under your pass seat. But I dont remember how detailed the rover fault system was either. I will try to remember to get my repair manuals today and do some looking for you on your issue(s)

Edit: however if your earlier results were that the ignition amplifier was sending pulses to the coil and the coil had correct power I think its out of the CPS's hands. That motor's gonna fire. Unless the coil is bad. Which you have one inroute.

You are replacing a lot of parts as tests. While I am very much understanding that mindset, you will find it cheaper to have a second truck, in the long run, to swap components like that. However again, its not a bad idea to then keep those parts that turned out to not be the problem, as spares. You will need them.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
ibhresident-Thank you for researching and helping me through this. It is odd that I'm not getting any fault codes thrown. It would help I saw a code and went directly to issue. It's funny you say buy another RR for a spare. I'm heading to Los Angeles to pick one up. Wife completely does not understand why I need another car just for parts. I'll tell her you agree with me. These RR classics are rare here so parts are hard to find. She drives a 2008 RR which we love, but I'm stuck on my classics for my driver. I'll keep all posted after I change coil and test CPS. If something comes up please let me know.
 

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Having just removed the engine from a '94, there is no crank position sensor. There is on a P38 as it doesn't have a distributor, but not on a Classic.
 
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