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Discussion Starter #1
I love Euro cars. Volvo's Saab's. Audi's, Dubs etc.

But I needed a vehicle to tow a 4500 lb vintage camper and the best option in my price range was a 2001 Ford Expedition.

Recently i read that the RR with the 4.6 can tow 6500 lb. I know about addons like trans coolers and brake wiring. But really, will i find happiness with, say, a 2001 Range Rover, for about the same money as I have in the Expedition, ($5K) ?

Of course, my buds in the RV world are no help at all. The belief that only American companies make real tow vehicles is pretty entrenched and all anyone can remember is unreliable Discoveries and unhappy owners.

So, if you were having this debate over a beer with the owner of a Burb, or an Expedition, what would you tell him?

Thanks

Dave SIlva
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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Re: Newbie- Will i find happiness? can i replace my Expedition ?

The P38 is rated at 7400lbs with a braked trailer. I have pulled our 2 axle car trailer loaded with various Jeeps over the years without any issues. it isnt the fastest around, but the luxury and ride make up for it IMHO. Nothing extra needed neither, it already has a tranny cooler up front, not built into the radiator like most.
How much towing are you planning on doing? If it's a daily deal, then neither of them will work ideally in my book. For that once in a while thing, it will be just fine.
Be sure that the rig you are looking at still has functional EAS on it, that will self level when towing.

Martin
 

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Re: Newbie- Will i find happiness? can i replace my Expedition ?

Not any P38, right? a 4.6 would be better from what I've read. something around 1999-2001 can be had for $5K

We would be towing a lot, i mean, this is our third car, primarily for pulling the camper.

The appeal of the Range Rover is the better off road ability at the campsite.
 

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Re: Newbie- Will i find happiness? can i replace my Expedition ?

I came from Euro cars as well. Air and water cooled VW's, BMW, and most recently a MINI. I picked up an '01 HSE to mostly tow my bikes to the track, but I also tow up to 26' boats for work. I've never had an issue towing trailer loads of motorcycles or boats. It's had some of the typical P38 annoying issues, but nothing that I couldn't handle. Owning it has definatly kept boredom away :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Re: Newbie- Will i find happiness? can i replace my Expedition ?

Towing is a funny thing though. A trailer load of bikes, or a big boat, or a heavy load for a short distance, can't be compared to a 4500 lb travel trailer with a nine-foot tall surface area behind the truck, pulled for 500 miles a day. RV people make this mistake all the time and pay dearly for it.

You can put three tons behind any proper truck and it will yank it around with ease but the prolonged strain on the transmission of a travel trailer at highway speeds is not visible.


I'm having troube finding anyone with real world experience. You would have enjoyed the reaction on the RV forum where it's all F350's and Duramax.

Dave
 

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Re: Newbie- Will i find happiness? can i replace my Expedition ?

I'm having troube finding anyone with real world experience. You would have enjoyed the reaction on the RV forum where it's all F350's and Duramax.

Dave
Well considering most Americans think they need a Superduty Ford to go to the grocery store.......
 

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Re: Newbie- Will i find happiness? can i replace my Expedition ?

I agree, I've come across many around here who think you need an F250 to haul an 800lbs jet ski around LOL. I picked up my 97 4.6 HSE to use for a lot of towing, primarily a 25' sailboat, which with trailer weighs in around 3500-3750lbs or so. One of the things that drew me to the Range Rover was the heavy duty frame, axles, and stout characteristics. I also like the fact that they are still reasonably maneuverable. My last tow vehicle was a 1995 GMC Suburban, which towed well, but was like driving a limo around. It was truly hellish to make any turns unless you had a whole parking lot, and generally I didn't really like the truck at all. All depends on the type of towing you are doing, also highway towing is much different than around town stuff. Some vehicles though are just piss poor for towing, such as a Jeep Wrangler, due to their short wheelbase.

You should have no problem towing with either a 4.0 or 4.6, I would just make sure you keep up with the maintenance, keep the cooling system up to spec, and drive carefully. Tongue weight is important, but with the Range Rover you also have full time 4wd which helps in some places with towing. I def appreciate it for slippery ramps, where with the Suburban I would have to throw it in 4wd.

I would avoid Discoveries, though, simply for the shorter wheelbase, the Range Rover will be much more stable for towing.
 

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Re: Newbie- Will i find happiness? can i replace my Expedition ?

I had the same problem. I decided to keep the expedition and sell the p38 ... it came down to towing power and room . the p38 is a nice ride but it was not intended to hull the boat and a ton of gear to and from the river or lake there is way way more room in the expedition ( with the third seat removed ) for everyone and the gear and the power of the expedition pulling up a big hill or a steep ramp trumps the p38 all day .. I loved my p38 for around town and im sure off road it would be way better . but the expedition wins this round no questions.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Re: Newbie- Will i find happiness? can i replace my Expedition ?

I had the same problem. I decided to keep the expedition and sell the p38 ...
Which engine? It looks to me like the power to weight ratio of the range rover with a 4.6 is very close to the Expedition. I could live with less interior storage. There's just three of us and we don't carry a lot of gear.

There are so many variables about towing capacity. For instance, Ford says the Expedition with a 5.4 but without the tow package (mainly the transmission cooler) will tow 6500 lb but the tow should not be taller than the truck. - so it will tow a 6500 LB trailer full of bricks but it won't tow a 6500 lb travel trailer.

So, on paper it looks like a P38 with a 4.6 compares well with the Expy but it would be nice to have more anecdotal input.

The 2003 with the 4.4 looks even better but I'll have to wait a while for the prices to come down.
 

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Re: Newbie- Will i find happiness? can i replace my Expedition ?

If you are going to take your 'home' with you then buy a GM diesel pick up, preferably one with the dual wheels and the massive fuel tanks. Range Rovers can tow 7000lb...but if you're going to be towing up and over the Rockies or other high altitude stuff, get a forced induction engine. It's fair to speculate that LR envisaged people in the UK towing horse floats with a Rangie...heavy, but no long distances by comparison to the USA and not on endless freeway/divided highway as you are blessed with there...and not 9' high windbreak ...that's a lot of drag at 55-70 mph! Even at 3,500' the 4.6 P38 is gasping with a trailer. Expect 10 MPG (US gallon) towing your "home"!!.
My ten cents worth is that you won't find eternal happiness with a P38 towing what you've described ...
 

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Re: Newbie- Will i find happiness? can i replace my Expedition ?

Which engine? It looks to me like the power to weight ratio of the range rover with a 4.6 is very close to the Expedition. I could live with less interior storage. There's just three of us and we don't carry a lot of gear.

There are so many variables about towing capacity. For instance, Ford says the Expedition with a 5.4 but without the tow package (mainly the transmission cooler) will tow 6500 lb but the tow should not be taller than the truck. - so it will tow a 6500 LB trailer full of bricks but it won't tow a 6500 lb travel trailer.

So, on paper it looks like a P38 with a 4.6 compares well with the Expy but it would be nice to have more anecdotal input.

The 2003 with the 4.4 looks even better but I'll have to wait a while for the prices to come down.
my expedition has the 4.6w my p38 had the 4.0 so maybe the 4.6 hse would act better but I tow alot and the expedition seems to do a better job bigger wider more stable . I pull everything from 18' open bow to 28' cruisers with out problem .
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Re: Newbie- Will i find happiness? can i replace my Expedition ?

"My ten cents worth is that you won't find eternal happiness with a P38 towing what you've described ... "

Well maybe not "Eternal Happiness"

But I'm not trying to compete with a dually diesel. I'm comparing it to a half ton Expedition which is more than adequate for my 4000 lb camper which i don't plan to upgrade.

10 mpg is normal for towing anything with a gas engine. If you RV in the United States it's something you accept.

So the question is, with all the grunt these trucks have, how do they survive at sustained output over hundreds of miles.

I suspect most of the folks here are "third owners" - the first and second owners were not RV people. Unlike the American trucks that are often bought new for this purpose.
 

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Re: Newbie- Will i find happiness? can i replace my Expedition ?

My friend of mine in England used to buy a new P38 every couple of years and towed a Vickers caravan all over europe with no problems.

However , would I expect a 10 year plus Range Rover to be just as reliable as a new one?

Not really, the Range Rover is a complicated vehicle and the passing of time seems to bring out alot of problems that a simpler Ford Expedition would not have.

I have no doubt an old P38 could psysically tow your trailer, but the real question is for how long, especially If you had no idea how many hours were on and how worn were the different components on it?

I towed my broken down 10,000lb motorhome 15 kms down the road (in high range) without a problem with the RR, but I wouldnt feel all that comfortable towing my race car on an open trailer across Death Valley with it as I would with my Toyota Tundra pickup.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Re: Newbie- Will i find happiness? can i replace my Expedition ?

I'd probably trust the Tundra more than just about any truck out there. But my price point is around $5-6K and that brings me to 10-year old American trucks and Range Rovers. I understand that there is a trade off. When i owned Saab or a Volvo i had to know more about the car to enjoy any dependability but it was worth it. And those were 20-25 year old vehicles.

I'm willing to have that relationship with a Range Rover if it will meet my needs.

But absent anyone's real world experience I may just have to figure it out myself.
 

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Re: Newbie- Will i find happiness? can i replace my Expedition ?

Go for it. I tow a 3,000 lb travel trailer with my 2001 4.6 with 70,000 on it with no problem. The air suspension alone makes the p38 an amazing tow rig, it is so stable and no more distribution hitch. Curves are no big deal anymore. I do recommend running stock size tires when pulling long grades.
 
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