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Discussion Starter #1
Had an ’07 HSE that I bought at 170k, as a third car / toy, and it ended up being the family go-to road trip car, my DD, and also had fun offroad with it. Great! But it also left us on the side of the interstate twice in two years plus some nearly towed incidents around town… so that’s sold and the newer, much younger unit is in the driveway.

2011 HSE, 27k miles. Bought sight unseen and it’s generally as advertised. Please don’t haze me for the sight-unseen part. Aside from some minor scuffs it’s like new, in and out. Underside and engine bay look new. No mechanical/ electrical/ performance issues at all. Water pump recently replaced.

I read as much as I could find about the timing chain tensioner/guide issues prior to buying, and ended up with a low mileage example, with the idea being that if I do 7k mi oil changes and flush any sludge with BG oil treatment, there’s a decent chance it’ll go past 100k mi on the original tensioners. BG was recommended by a LR tech and it makes sense. Tech said there's a one way valve on the tensioner and it gets gunked up, which leads to extra slop in the chain, which leads to the tensioner wearing into the guide, which leads to bigger issues.

Now that the new beast is in the driveway, I’m pretty sure I hear the timing chain rattle… ugh. Not as severe as some I’ve seen on youtube, but still. The ’07 with 200k mi sounded like a well worn engine, vs the new one that sounds like a new engine, with occasional, clearly audible knocking (at idle). Even driving it around town I can hear a bit of a diesel-like sound. Granted I've only had it a few days, but the worst I've heard is on hot start.

My question is this: should I attack the tensioner/guide issue right away, while the motor is still young, and *only* install two tensioners and the two updated guides? Or shut up and put up, live with the rattle until I see some sort of CEL/code, and then do the chains etc too? Put differently, how much easier is the job if I’m only doing the two rails and tensioners?

Can anyone list a very basic, high-level DIY for just the tensioners/rails? and, I’m sure it’s a lot of wrenching… what are the really hard steps?

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Not first direct injection. Other DD is a bmw 535xit, twin turbo DI motor -- which has its own set of issues, but loud knocking isn't one of them. I seem to be allergic to simple cars.

will try to get a video. thanks -
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Here's the startup, with the engine up to temp:
https://youtu.be/80L3y_YJFM4

again, water pump was replaced within the last couple hundred miles, by a LR dealership. (replaced due to leak; coolant was low; but dealership didn't find any signs of overheating)
 

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Doesn't really sound like chain slap.. Maybe a stuck hydraulic lifter. How many miles have you put on it so far?

Then again I may be wrong, not have heard that noise on the AJ133 before. Does the noise change when the oil cap is removed when running? Does it change with different RPMs? Temperature?

Invest in a "mechanics stethoscope" from Harbour Freight and pinpoint where the noise is coming from, that'd be a good start. I will be doing timing chain tensioners on Her 2010 after it starts making noise, it currently shows no signs of chain slap while running, only for a split second when starting cold which I am led to believe is the VVT unit. It has about 98k miles and Carfax showed that it had oil changes every 5,000 miles, so I'd have to agree with the frequent oil change theory.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited by Moderator)
Good to hear the frequent oil changes have kept things in order for you. Have a stethoscope, so may try that. Might also try pulling the main belt and running it for a few seconds to try to isolate if it's coming from the motor or an accessory. Like, maybe they screwed up the water pump job somehow. First things first though, will do the BG oil treatment / oil change; that was the plan anyway and it's possible that the BG stuff frees up a tensioner/lifter/etc. Will be interesting to see how much crud comes out with the oil -- considering the oil should have about 500 mi on it.

The knocking is much more pronounced when idling after engine warm. Doesn't seem to go away after startup (with engine warm). Cold startup, seems OK -- which seems odd to me. Will check for effect of removing oil filler cap with motor running. Speaking of such, I checked the underside of the cap (with motor off) and absolutely nothing unusual there (no slime/burnt smell/etc)

Keep in mind that the previous owner sold the car right after having the water pump done. maybe because it was old and starting to break (you can see the argument), or if I want to be paranoid about it, maybe the knocking started about when the water pump failed, and the mechanic said it's technically fixed, but I'd sell it...
 

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The 5.0 timing chain issue creates a sensitivity to engine noise compared to the previous 4.4 and 4.2 Jag motors (understandably for those aware of the problem).

Your engine doesn't seem to have the rattle associated with tensioners that are allowing more whip in the chain than it's supposed to have, based on that short video.

A very considerable contributor to the chain problem is the extended period between oil changes.

Although modern oils certainly allow for more than the typical 3,000 mile intervals our parents (or grandparents) may have been used to, the extended oil change intervals are beginning to reveal significantly gunked-up internals on higher mileage motors.

A close friend of mine mentioned yesterday that his dealership has seen a sudden spike in timing chain problems on 100,000 mile vehicles which have clearly not had regular (and much more frequently than LR recommends) oil changes. Many of these vehicles have been picked up off used dealer lots with spotty service records.

As a precaution, given that you know the total mileage of your car but not the intervals between any previous oil changes (unless you have the receipts but didn't mention that?) you may want to consider a very short period before your next oil change and even consider the benefit of having/adding a flushing agent to the engine in advance of that oil and filter change.

Given my highly qualified LR friend's comment, I'm going to significantly shorten the oil change intervals on our two 5.0 HSE's and limit that between oil and filter change mileage to no more than 5000 miles (even using Amsoil) as opposed to the present 7500ish mileage based changes.

Wish my underhood area was as clean and detailed as yours :)

Rob
 

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So listening to it again, and being dependent on temperature, it reminds me highly of what engine I have good experience with...

being the 02-05 FFRR with the M62tu and all of the VANOS noise they get especially if oil changes were skipped, or improper oil was used.

Is it possible on of the four VVT can phaser/VANOS units has failed in an identical fashion to the older M62tu engine?

Run the BG, try Seafoam I’ve had great luck with using it to clean my older Rover V8s, and replace oil with a STJLR.03.5004 certified oil such as the OE Edge Pro 5w20, or my favourite Pennzoil Ultra Platinum. There is also a product that I used to quiet down my VANOS, I’ll check when I get home. I think it was motorkote or something around there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

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Hi folks,
I'm getting ready to do the next oil change on my 12 RR, and I'm curious about this "BG" product. Can someone give me some details?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I'm no expert on the BG products, but based on what I could find online, I bought this - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IAPLIDK

Update on the knocking: It's harder to hear on cold start, as the engine normally goes to the higher RPM for a longer duration. Maybe for other reasons too. Once fully up to temp, if I stop the motor and then immediately restart, knocking is not really evident. Let is sit for 5 min, then restart, and it's CLEARLY there, as heard here:
https://youtu.be/UWjeZAaNGoE


It fades to the point where it sounds OK, after minute or so of running. Taking the oil filler cap off while running changes the overall sound of things, a bit, not really sure... will need to try that a few more times.

Turning off A/C does nothing for the sound (hey, what if it's just an unhappy AC compressor?)

My wild speculation is that the root cause is a partailly gunked up hydraulic lifter and/or oil passage to same. Let's assume the JLR dealership put in the correct oil (0W-20). Cold start, the oil is less viscous, lifter pressurizes quicker. Hot start immediately after shutoff, oil more viscous, lifter still full. Let the hot engine sit for a few minutes, oil has time to drain out, and then takes longer to refill on start. So without the gunk, the same process happens, but much quicker; the loud noise just goes away quickly. Does this make any sense? Any gaping holes in the argument?

Plan remains to do the BG oil treadment (flush) and oil change. Probably this weekend.
 

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5w20 is the correct weight for all climate 5.0s? Or am I missing something.

My high idle is about 45 seconds on cold start, and with warm start 5 or so.
 

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5W20 is the recommended oil grade.

Just for future awareness as you compare before and after engine flush results, there is a purge valve on the upper left bank which opens and closes in a rhythmic fashion to allow fuel vapor to vent to the charcoal canister system.

After a warm vehicle has been sitting for a little while, the purge valve will have a greater volume of vapor to pass.

In normal operation the purge valve makes a very light, metallic ticking noise.

Sometimes that can be confused for a noisy/sticking lifter or injector.

Rob
 

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Discussion Starter #17
This motor is new to me so maybe someone else chimes in. I'm going off what the mfr specifies. Plus it's the only one these folks recommend based on my MY -
https://www.roverparts.com/nxt/?keywords=oil&Dropdowndescription=Range+Rover+Full+Size+2010-2012&Subcategory=Oil

from weasley on bobistheoilguy - "Up to MY 2014 the STJLR.03.5004 spec (5W-20) is stipulated for the AJ133 engine. From MY 2015 onwards the new 0W-20 spec, STJLR.51.5122 is stipulated. The 0W-20 is also backwards compatible with the older engines."
 

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Discussion Starter #18
5W20 is the recommended oil grade.

Just for future awareness as you compare before and after engine flush results, there is a purge valve on the upper left bank which opens and closes in a rhythmic fashion to allow fuel vapor to vent to the charcoal canister system.

After a warm vehicle has been sitting for a little while, the purge valve will have a greater volume of vapor to pass.

In normal operation the purge valve makes a very light, metallic ticking noise.

Sometimes that can be confused for a noisy/sticking lifter or injector.

Rob
Interesting -- but does this sound like said purge valve? https://youtu.be/UWjeZAaNGoE
 

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It is not a purge valve, and purge valve is located on the middle of the left head, you can easily disconnect it and hear the difference
 

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Discussion Starter #20
New info. Note oil changed less than 1000 mi ago, Feb this year. April, water pump failed, driven to dealership, fixed, then car sold to me via used car dealer... figured I should get the oil tested (blackstone labs), do an oil flush (de-gunk a potentially plugged timing chain tensioner), and potentially know if there was water in the oil.


So, I drained out 3 oz or so into the blackstone sample jar, and spilled some in the process.* here's what the spillage looks like.


sparkles.


FML.

https://youtu.be/kkPsjK31OSI

Engine sounds same with new oil. Old oil otherwise seemed ok. Expected it to be darker than new oil due to bg flush, and it was. Not black, just dark caramel. No usual signs of water contamination. Also note the little bit of oil in the pan was among the first bit out, so possible more sparkles there than the bulk of oil out.

To be clear, no signs of head gasket issues. So, what's knocking and causing sparkles????
 
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