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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just purchased a 2003 RR hse. Always wanted one and finally made jump. I purchased it not running though. It cranks but wont start. I have researched for a long time and am still in same situation. The ignition turns, ive checked all fuses, checked power at fuses and swapped relays. I can jump the fuel pump at relay and get great pressure. I have also changed the crank sensor and checked its wiring. Also have checked the relay for the ignition coils and its putting power to the coils but no visible spark. Pulled a coil and dont see it spark. Ive done that test on other cars before. Ive even pulled a plug and did spark test with my silverado and plug got spark. Doesnt seem like injectors are firing either. I have tried starter fluid and it seems to attempt to start. Afterwards i tried pouring gas into the intake but then no attempts to run at all. I have checked for power to coils and have 12v to 15 and 4a. No available engine codes. Had p1844 initially. Wasnt believing it was a ecu sync issue cause ecu energizes ignition coil relay. I get .62 ohms on new crank sensor. Ive tried tapping into crank sensor input wiring at ecu to read volts(black and yellow wire). Soon as i turn igition on it reads 4.3 ac volts not cranking which doesnt seem right being that ckp creates its own voltage. Maybe my understanding is wrong. Im out of ideas. Help please. Would like to get it running to get to my coolant leak issue at trans cooler. Leaks right out at hose connection. Dont know if it has a fail safe for no coolant so i figured id mention. Oh and red security light isnt on either but works. Tried arming/disarming with key in door.
 

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2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Air - spark and fuel. All needed to run. You are hitting on all of them, but have not ruled out a fuel delivery problem.

If you do not have fuel, as I understand the RR will not let the coils continue to fire. Although you spraying starter fluid does contradict this a little. Not sure it is only what I read.

That said - you need to check your fuel pressure on the fuel rail. You may have a weak fuel pump or a clogged fuel filter.

What if anything else do you know about the prior history? The more you can share the better.
 

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2002-2005 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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Do you have any idea how long the new engine ran? Mileage on it? It is tough to start diagnosis without knowing if the person before you messed something up or if the new used engine suffered timing guide failure. If the engine ran normally for a few hundred miles you can exclude improper timing - unless the timing moved, which the compression test may tell you or the timing guides failed. If the new engine was not touched - just swapped moving timing caused by a mechanic is doubtful - moving timing due to timing guide failure is a real possibility.

I just replaced my third engine with an engine (#4 for the vehicle) that had 118k on it. As my prior engine #3 only lasted about 3k, and had new timing guides I installed, I reused them on the new engine #4. I noted when I took off the original guides on #4 that they were about to fail. I could crack pieces with little pressure. I am just telling you this to let you know your "new" engine may have failed - depending on the conditions of the timing guides. I doubt they put in a new engine. Maybe they did the guides when it was out. You need to figure this out to help eliminate problems. If they did the guides - then maybe some timing bolt(s) moved.

I am not sure if your coolant leak is the cause of the problem - but it wouldn't hurt to eliminate it. Can you post a location of the leak? Maybe you can use some of that Silicon tape and seal it up until you can address it correctly. (I love the stuff) Maybe one of the clips isn't seated so it is leaking. Best get rid of all possible problems - I don't know enough to say the engine doesn't have a fail safe.

I would check fuel pressure and do as Mark C suggests - a compression test. Maybe a compression check first. Maybe change the oil and see what it looks like. If you think the oil will be good - drain it into a container you can reuse. Check your oil filter housing bottom for metal sparkle. It wouldn't hurt to drop the lower oil pan after you drain the oil. Look for timing guide pieces. You can do this first or last - but it is easy and mostly just time. You just need to eliminate known weak points. If you do a compression test and it is great, than above can be skipped.

Compression test will tell you if you have a timing issue - maybe your timing guides are shot. A used engine with failing guides is a real possibility.

If you have good compression then the timing should be fine. I would then check your fuel pressure.

To be honest after checking compression and fuel pressure - I would still pull the valve covers, at least Bank 2 and take a look at what you can see of your timing guides. Look for missing pieces, wear, cracks and general condition. Also check to make sure everything is tight on the Vanos and exhaust sprocket and the chains are also not loose. You may have failed guides at which point you need to step back and evaluate the damage.

With a helper you can hold the cams and level them with a ruler, then run a 5-6mm tube through the trigger wheel check screw on the upper timing cover to confirm timing. Crude but for now it will let you start to get to the bottom of the problem.

I will tell you my RR story so you can get a worse case scenario clear picture. I bought my 04 with a bad engine. The prior owner bought it used and at about 50k miles the rear hoses collapsed and ruined the original factory engine #1. He had a shop install engine #2 and ran it until about 112k when the timing guides failed and he drove it until it flat out died and the engine froze. This is how I acquired it. I installed a used motor which was unknown to me junk, engine #3. I replaced the timing guides, vanos ... The engine ran fine, but burned oil at a rate of 1qt every 300-500 miles. On the coldest day of the winter, my wife attempted to start the RR and kept going with the starter until the battery died. In the process, it is my theory, she cylinder washed a number of pistons (the rings were shot anyway most likely due to running low by the original owner). I tried everything you tried - no luck. Finally I drained the oil as it was full of gas from the repeated starting attempts. I noticed metal sparkle in the oil. I dropped the lower oil pan and saw the cylinder walls had gouges. Engine #3 dead. So on to engine #4 - which I just put my almost new parts on and it runs good today.

The moral of my story is that used engines are unknowns - you need to diagnosis issues without spending money with certain known weak points in mind.
 

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Why overlook a ECM sync fault? The ignition relay is controlled by the ignition switch, however the ECM needs to be mobilized to allow spark. The ECM will cut an injector if it detects a certain level of misfire when running, but it does not inhibit spark.

How are you measuring current through the coils, and how are you getting 15V on a non running engine, turn your charger down, that's borderline dangerous.

Your understanding of the sensor is ok, you shouldn't be seeing voltage there, sure you're on the right pins? AC voltage is also a sign of ripple, so again, check your battery charger.

It's far from an actual test, but does it sound normal cranking? When these engines lose compression(usually jumped timing) it will sound very different than normal, fast.
 

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Tripingeorge3,

Did you figure anything out? I am having issue with my 03 hse not starting. I get 50psi fuel pressure if I bypass relay in rear, but no fuel when relay installed and cranking, just turns over. I am thinking ECM sync fault. I will probably have mine towed in today as I have tried checking every fuse and moving relays around. I may check ignition switch wires next, before shipping it off. I checked compression on all cylinders and get close to 150.

Hope you get yours running.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I didnt do a compression test on all the cylinders cause i figured i might have caused a cylinder was done. I had added oil in each cylinder so measurement wouldn't have been correct. I went through everything electrically and found no shorts or opens in actual wiring. Found ecm not grounding fuel pump relay. Grounding myself energized pump. I had got tired of the normal common sense troubleshooting and order a icarsoft i930 scanner for $113 on amazon. Beforehand i tried finding a shop to do the resync. They kept trying to tell me something else had to be wrong. One even told me he never heard of resyncing and had to troubleshoot. Actual range rover shop. No, i did that already. Even told them what i troubleshot. Not paying extra for you to do what i already took my time doing. Anyhow, my scanner came an stated that my key is good but vehicle is immobilized. Called back and now he's willing to do the sync. Only other bad part is that they want me to take it off my car trailer. Will keep you posted.
 

· JACK'S GRANDAD
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I had got tired of the normal common sense troubleshooting and order a icarsoft i930 scanner for $113 on amazon. .
Tells us all we need to know. Patience is the key, taking short cuts gets you nowhere unless you are plain lucky.
For diagnostics, you'd be better off getting something Rover specific. That would have also sorted your synch issue.
You would be doing yourself a favor by following Daves advise to the letter.

Martin
 

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2006 l322 Westminster #41
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Thanks to Dave for pointing out that the ecm can shut off an injector if misfires are frequent. Not quite part of this post but when i changed out a faultily cop and I replaced the plugs my fuel consumption seems to have gone up a touch based on the cars calculation of fuel consumption. The plugs seemed to have some whitish deposits on them (80,000 at least km's on them) and all looked nearly identical including the one with the failing cop. I hope that would not contribute to burning a piston from lean running and undetected detonation. at 255kms it seems to run better than it ever has with us.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Got the news. Range rover shop said that the previous owner put in a junkyard ecu and that's why its not starting. They have a parts one with all matching computers and are going to switch the matching chip to my key. Although i couldve sworn that a used computer could be programmed to match.
 

· JACK'S GRANDAD
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Engine ECU I'm guessing?
If so, they can be resynched with any half decent Rover specific software.
So instead of them having the right tools to do the job, they are now selling you a bunch of used stuff to "fix" it?
Changing all the key'd parts too? Door lock, ignition, glovebox?
It would have been cheaper I'm thinking, to get the Rover specific kit for it, instead of the Icar thing, by the time the shop makes you buy and install at that other stuff.
But they can program your mileage etc??
Martin
 

· JACK'S GRANDAD
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For about the best kit for an avid DUY'er is the BBS stuff in my experience.
The full blown deal for your rig is $754. That allows you to do pretty much everything a dealer can do.
For example, to synch an engine ecu to the immobilizer....

SM046 - BOSCH ME7.2 - Diagnostic Capabilities (Other)
  • Start Synchronization with immobiliser ECU: This causes the engine management ECU to go into Learn Mode where it will learn the next output from the immobiliser ECU and synchronize with it.
    The synchronization procedure is done in three steps that should take place in one ignition cycling.
    1. Put the engine management in learning mode: This function is to be found in the engine management START SYNCHRONIZATION WITH IMMOBILISER ECU. The function will set the ECU into learning mode. Once you've been prompted that the engine management is in learning mode, navigate in the Vehicle Explorer to the immobiliser for step 2.
    2. Send code from immobiliser ECU: This function is to be found in the immobiliser SYNCRONIZE WITH ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. This function will send codes to be learned. Once you've been prompted that the immobiliser sent the code successfully, navigate in the Vehicle Explorer to the engine management for step 3.
    3. Take the engine management out of learning mode: This function is to be found in the engine management END SYNCHRONIZATION WITH IMMOBILISER ECU. The function will end the learning mode, leaving the ECU in normal mode.
  • End Synchronization with immobiliser ECU: This causes the engine management ECU to acknowledge the code sent by the immobiliser ECU and to exit Learn Mode.
  • Reset Adaptation Values: This forces the engine management to reset all currently learned adaptation values to default values. The engine will run slightly rougher after this, but new values will quickly be re-learnt.
  • Driver Demand Reset: This forces a reset of the driver demand error value. This is caused when the accelerator and brake are pressed at the same time.
  • Temporary Idle Speed: Control of the idle speed can be tested by causing the ECU to temporarily adjust the idle speed off the standard idle speed using one of the buttons provided. Up to a maximum of plus or minus 500 rpm in 50 rpm stages.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Good news! It now runs and sounds very good. Now on to the other issues. Lol. Thanks for everybody's help. Guess for towing purposes one if the driveshaft was unbolted so it wont move which made me unable to load it on my trailer. They are going to put it on lift and reconnecy it for me tomorrow.
 

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Once everything is sorted I would still pull the Bank 2 valve cover and have a look at the timing guides for wear. Maybe you get lucky and all the work was already done. The timing guides fail - it is just a matter of when.
 
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