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LIFETIME CONTRIBUTOR
2006-2009 Range Rover Sport
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11,013 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Heads up... Land Rover is trying to identify a possible issue with the new 5-liter supercharged power plants of 2010 RRS and FFRR. Apparently there have been complaints of rattle and knock noises originating from the engine compartment (can't say I have heard of this on the forum up to now), and the supercharger assembly is suspect. The Eaton supercharger of the outgoing 4.2 liter engine has been a model of reliability, hopefully that won't change in 2010. :pray: It takes 4 and 1/2 hours to replace that sucker! Special Service Message quoted below, this won't be escalated to an "official" TSB until/unless Land Rover finds the cause for the reported noise.

Id 44168
Models
LM - New Range Rover
LS - Range Rover Sport
Title 10MY 5.0 Supercharger Noise
Last Modified 26-APR-2010 08:12
Category Engine
Symptom 497000 Engine Noise
Content
Issue:
The customer may complain of a rattle/knocking type noise from the engine compartment.

Cause:
Under investigation.

Action:
If the above stated issue is reported by the customer please remove the supercharger drive belt, if this rectifies the noise concern please raise an EPQR and order and fit a new supercharger assembly. Please retain the old supercharger as it maybe required for engineering investigation purposes.

NOTE – It is imperative that the supercharger assembly is returned in the exact condition as when removed from the vehicle. Tampering/opening the assembly once it has been removed from the vehicle and returning the assembly in this condition invalidates any potential investigation to determine root cause with the supplier.

Parts Information
Supercharger Assembly - LR011341

Repair Operation Times
19.46.15 – Supercharger assembly – renew - 3.9hrs (Range Rover)
19.46.15 – Supercharger assembly – renew – 4.5hrs (Range Rover Sport)

For repair procedure guidance please refer to GTR Section 303-12D - Intake Air Distribution and Filtering - 5.0L SC V8 - AJ133
 

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Premium Member
2006-2009 Range Rover Sport
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5,175 Posts
Issue:
The customer may complain of a rattle/knocking type noise from the engine compartment followed by a loud explosion causing the hood to fly open and impair driver visibility.

Cause:
Under investigation.

Action:
If the above stated issue is reported by the customer please remove the supercharger drive belt, if this rectifies the noise concern please raise an EPQR and order and fit a new supercharger assembly and hood. Please retain the old supercharger as it maybe required for engineering investigation purposes. The hood may be made into a lounge area coffee table.

`)
 

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47 Posts
Ok, so this may forestall my pending question about just this noise.

The 4.2 supercharger had a very distinct and typical high pitched whine; the 5.0 is completely different. In my case at least there is a “medium pitch fast rhythmic knocking” that comes on at abruptly 2800rpm. It’s only noticeable under load and what had been confusing me was that the pitch doesn’t seem to change with increased engine revs.

i.e. the pitch of the 4.2 S/C would rise with increasing revs, the two were directly tied; in the 5.0 they’re apparently not – it comes on at 2800rpm and stays at the same pitch as engine revs rise.

I’ve been stumped by this for a while, but the fact that it might be a fault puts whole new light on it.

But for moment let’s take that possibility back out of the equation – the 5.0 S/C is of a completely different design to the 4.2 S/C: could that account for the different noise experience in any way?
 

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LIFETIME CONTRIBUTOR
2006-2009 Range Rover Sport
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11,013 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I am completely clueless about the engineering differences between "high helix rotor" design of the new Roots-type Eaton twin supercharger compared to the previous generation, but one of the advantages highlighted in Jaguar / Land Rover's own marketing materials and press releases is the virtually inaudible noise level of the new blower versus the old one... Every owner used to the "whine" of the 4.2 engine has commented on how much quieter the new 5-liter supercharged engine is under load.
 

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LIFETIME CONTRIBUTOR
2006-2009 Range Rover Sport
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11,013 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Also, the 2010 S/C uses an interesting new noise feedback system that artificially injects engine noise in the passenger cabin under certain engine loads to "enhance" the sporty driving experience... Doesn't seem to enhance it much in your case, but here is the relevant section of the manual for you techies.
 

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47 Posts
Interesting, this is the first I’ve heard of this with the Rovers.

I spoke to a Jaguar/Land Rover tech the other day regarding why the XFR has such a great engine/exhaust note compared to that of the Rover, and he said that the noise in the XFR was “faked” in just this way, although he oddly didn’t mention it was also done in the Rover.

However, having watched Clarkson drive the sh1t out of the XFR there didn’t seem much need to fake the noise...

Sooo, if the Rover does indeed have this system I wonder if it has a volume control…?
 

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LIFETIME CONTRIBUTOR
2006-2009 Range Rover Sport
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11,013 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Raab said:
Sooo, if the Rover does indeed have this system I wonder if it has a volume control…?
Ha! Probably no volume control... yet. Give them time and who knows, maybe by 2013 you'll be able to adjust engine noise via volume knob on the radio. My daughter's Barbie tricycle does that already, you turn the handle and it makes a deep and satisfying "vroom, vrooooom!" `) Isn't it funny how automakers have spent all these years making their rides and engines quieter and now they have to resort to these complicated gizmos (I mean, look at that thing!) to pipe some processed engine noise back in the cabin? It reminds me of those digital cameras that make a mechanical shutter sound when you take a picture.
 

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Wow, silliness taken to a whole new level. Why not just save all the effort and let the blower whine a little like it used to!!

I wonder what the dealer charges for a new blower assembly :shock: Lucky all these new 5.0 motors are under warranty...
 

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SUPER MODERATOR
2006-2009 Range Rover Sport
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4,469 Posts
I can think of an easier way to get engine noise into the passenger compartment, just drill a couple of holes in the firewall and be done with it.
 

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2010-2012 Range Rover Sport
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69 Posts
after long trips at high speeds i noticed that there was a knocking noise from the engine when idling(2010 RRS SC)...took it in to the dealer, and they determined it was the supercharger and replaced it...the noise remained so i took it in again and told them to do an oil change, they called back and said that they are not doing the oil change as they might have to replace the entire engine as soon as they hear back from Land rover. They called next day and said the engine is fine, but they are going to change the supercharger again (twice in less than a month). I am currently waiting for my appointment to change the supercharger. I'm thinking that if the noise doesn't go away, it must be the engine. Any advice as to what I should do if they keep insisting that it is the supercharger and not the engine, because I'm begining to think it might be the engine...Any advice is greatly appreciated.
 

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2010-2012 Range Rover Sport
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472 Posts
after long trips at high speeds i noticed that there was a knocking noise from the engine when idling(2010 RRS SC)...took it in to the dealer, and they determined it was the supercharger and replaced it...the noise remained so i took it in again and told them to do an oil change, they called back and said that they are not doing the oil change as they might have to replace the entire engine as soon as they hear back from Land rover. They called next day and said the engine is fine, but they are going to change the supercharger again (twice in less than a month). I am currently waiting for my appointment to change the supercharger. I'm thinking that if the noise doesn't go away, it must be the engine. Any advice as to what I should do if they keep insisting that it is the supercharger and not the engine, because I'm begining to think it might be the engine...Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Get an engine stethoscope and move it around on the engine components or take it to an indie shop and spend $50 bucks and get a second opinion...my 2 cents.
 

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Premium Member
2006-2009 Range Rover Sport
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5,175 Posts
Its amazing to me how ineffective dealerships are at diagnosing things and its why I am terrified to return after a warranty is up. They would rather spend all day replacing stuff piece by piece, but since you are still under warranty, let them hump this football. Just be persistent that the issue be solved, especially since they mentioned replacing the engine.

But if the engine knocking subsides after draining and refilling the crankcase with a heavier weight oil...bingo.
 

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2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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16 Posts
I think I'm being taken advantage of and need some serious Rover buddies help. 2010 RR SC. I've owned the truck for just over a year. Was driving the other day and the A/C started to go....then while parking the power steering tightened right up. They were both intermittent until I parked. I looked under the hood and seen fluid all over near the fan. Had it towed to dealership which is 2 hrs away. Nobody local wanted to touch it. So the dealership has told me there was a leak in the crank seal and it released oil which made the belt slip. Then he said there is something wrong with the timing chains. He said they heard a noise from the SC and upon investigation said I need to replace the nose cone assembly....all said and done $7000 and another $2000 for brakes....what should I do...any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. My last 2003 didn't have any issues...this one is turning into a hog!
 

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Administrator
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Well was the fluid motor oil? His explanation does indeed explain your symptoms... however I have never heard of a catastrophic failure of a crank seal to the point of not being driveable... and certainly not with a 5.0 here. Crank seals always leave little freckles on your garage floor as they begin to leak then coat the underside of the engine and suspension. Later down the road as they leak more you smell oil burning as the oil makes it's way back to the exhaust/cats.

"Something wrong with the timing chains" would be the guides... TSB for those to be replaced.

Nose cone noise would need to be proven before I forked over anything to a dealer.

Skip the brakes and find an indie for brakes.
 

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2010-2012 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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16 Posts
Thanks...yes it was motor oil. It was still driveable just didn't know what was wrong so I parked it. Once is was put on the angle of the flat bed there was a significant amount of oil that ran on the flatbed floor. And there was a little bit of oil on our driveway that I didn't notice util the RR wasn't parked there.
TSB??? technical service bulletin? so I need the timing guides done for sure?
The noise from supercharger was a vague response from the service guy. The last guy I spoke to said it wasn't catastrophic if it wasn't fixed. How could I get them to prove it was the nose cone? There isn't much labour overlap so I don't think it matters if the SC noise isn't fixed at the same time. BTW( 7 hrs labour on the nose cone replacement and 17 hrs for the timing guides and crank seal)
 

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Shame it's already at the dealer. Be worth actually looking at to see if it really is a seal. Could be a filter gasket failure, filter line rupture... just hard to swallow a main seal failure with no signs.
 
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