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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone,

Early last year (2012) I bought a 1997 Gems 4.6 P38 with serious front end damage in hopes of fixing her up. Engine and transmission were in good shape though, 150k km on the clock.





I was looking for spare parts all over the place before the body shopped started hacking away and I stumbled upon a 2000 4.0 P38 with a seized engine. I needed the interior which was in much better shape and I didnt need to worry about the airbag module and that sort of stuff so it worked out as a much better base for the body shop to work with.
I got it for a good price and have both registrations so I'm able to legally decommission one and register the engine number in the other vin. Here is the Bosch P38



I'd like to keep this as a build-progress thread. But my current question is this. What are my options with the engine?
1. Can I swap over the entire gems 4.6 engine with becm and loom?
2. Would it be recommendable to just swap the short block over from the 4.6 GEMS and keep it bosch? I've read conflicting info on having to remap the ECU or if it auto adjusts.

Thanks.

Joe
 

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Good question. Electrpllonics are different but I dont know all the specifics. I have heard the blcks are basically the same but some minor modifications need to be done to swap between GEMS n Bosch base on what I have heard from Disco owners (stuf like crank sensors etc). More info on the web bc discos want the 4.6. I think it would be easiest to swap short blocks prvided the top end is ok. You will probably spend more time troubleshooting electric gremlins and modifying things to work than jusy swapping blocks, but I am not an expert. Check out discoweb.
 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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I would put the gems 4.6 in the bosch truck. strip it to a long block.
Remove the crank sensor and its round bung from the gems engine, replace it with the bosch engine and the flywheel.
Remove the gems knock sensors and replace with the bosch units, the studs are threaded, they will remove!
Replace the cam gear on the camshaft, the reluctor wheel is different for the bosch trucks, again, a simple swap.

after this you'll be ready to run.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks, now this link I found is starting to make more sense (http://bahnstorm.com/rover/engine.htm), I guess it would be the opposite though. Seems the same items need to be swapped. I guess now I have to figure out if the Bosch 4.0 had SAI and if I should swap the timing chain covers as well.



 

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1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
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Seized motor is a straightforward mechanical problem so why not simply fix that or, better, send away to a specialist to get a full recon job and re-install. That way you have a fully standard set-up which can be trouble shot the standard way rather than an "um, er, yes that ought to work but I don't see why it doesn't" thing. Given the sensitivity of P38 electronics to stuff not being on top line and the fact that by now no one knows exactly what's going on in a full engineering sense chopping and changing is tempting fate.

Far as I can see you no longer need the white P38 for anything so moving it on and fixing the Bosch motor may well come out less costly overall. Its got to be worth a lot more as a "potential fixer-upper" with a good motor than as a parts donor hulk.

Clive
 

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Discussion Starter #6
yes that was still an option to consider. We have to pop the motor open to see what is really wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Went over on the weekend and stuck around for the engine removal.
They took out the sump and we already saw part of the problem. It was missing two connecting rods, and there were definite signs of overheating on the crank and scratch marks probably from a busted rod. Still waiting on pics from the mechanic, as he took the engine home for the full tear down. He just called to tell me the block was no good, slipped liner, still waiting on pics from him. So here are more pics at the body shop. Full teardown was underway

bsua49Bh.jpg

You can see some of the damage done by a leaky battery. Should get that all fixed though.

JeTvaXdh.jpg

ICkxL1Uh.jpg
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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Hmmm, torque converter out with the motor? Not good....Got a spare transmission too I guess?
The engines are easy enough to swap over, and you wont have any "issues" or need to keep fingers crossed etc. It's done often enough to be a known quantity, so no biggie at all IMHO.

Martin
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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Wrong way to do it.
The torque converter ALWAYS stays on the transmission. A 30 second glance at any shop manual would have told them that.
Transmission oil seal, oil pump, shaft, etc, can all get damaged when doing it the way they did it.
Correct way is to remove the 4 bolts holding the torque converter to the flexplate, then slide the torque converter back towards the transmission slightly. This protects all those parts listed above.
I would be VERY concerned by the "skill" of the guys that are doing this work, to the point of taking it elsewhere if you can.
Just my .02 though...

Martin
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Wrong way to do it.
The torque converter ALWAYS stays on the transmission. A 30 second glance at any shop manual would have told them that.
Transmission oil seal, oil pump, shaft, etc, can all get damaged when doing it the way they did it.
What sort of damage would I be looking for? If I inspect it would I be able to see if there is any damage?

I would be VERY concerned by the "skill" of the guys that are doing this work, to the point of taking it elsewhere if you can.
Just my .02 though...

Martin
My thoughts exactly. I'm just waiting on my crap back from this guy and see about the swap over from the Gems.

Also, here's the block damage
mDmltGN.jpg
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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A bad oil seal may show up if you fill the tranny and leave it sitting for a while. Can also test the pump by filling with fluid and turning the torque converter while it is slid onto the input shaft of the transmission.. Fluid should come out of the tranny cooler line fitting if it's turned fast enough.
Thats about all you can do with the rig not running, besides keeping yer fingers crossed that is!
A new shop is in order though, if they dont even know to remove the torque converter from the engine before removal etc.
Looks like the piston came apart from the rod, then the rod hit the bottom of the cylinder, unless the idiots hit the bottom of the liner with a connecting rod when removing it?
Martin
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks again for the input Martin. Much appreciated.
Also, that was one of the rods that wasn't in place when we took the sump off, so damage was probably already there.
 

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JACK'S GRANDAD
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So the heads are on, but rods/pistons are missing?
Why would the previous owner put it all back together after he removed a couple of rods/pistons? Try to rip someone off?
Weird for sure.

Martin
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I agree, though I bought it through a 3rd party who was going to strip it for parts. I got it in time luckily, nothing major had sold, just the abs pump (which I have) and the wheels (which I don't need). He did say the engine had blown but didn't really know what it was except maybe something about a piston. For what I paid for it I wouldn't have gotten all the parts I needed separately. I was having trouble finding a good dash and some of the interior parts, so I was looking at ebay. I needed both bumpers, complete dash and airbags, radiator, fan cowl and some other minor bits which this had.
Seems whatever shop looked at the engine didn't pull it out, just took off the oil sump, took out the broken bits, saw it was useless and covered it back up.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So here's another progress report: 1. The battery box was repaired cbkf6RMh.jpg . 2. Quarter panel neatly cut and pasted from donor truck. baF62Nfh.jpg and a couple of days later the first coat of paint was thrown on the chassis. 21OfOSjh.jpg rH63ajPh.jpg 0O4Frufh.jpg Gjf0XGsh.jpg RkRqH7Rh.jpg
 
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