RangeRovers.net Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've been looking over my recently acquired P38 and have noticed a few differences to other ones I've viewed previously. That's made me start to wonder if it might be a special edition or something... but I've drawn a blank on researching online. I was hoping some of the combined wisdom here might be able to shed some light....

My car is a 1999 4.6HSE according to the data in the front of the service portfolio booklet and first registered 1st June 1999. All pretty straightforward.

According to the data plate on the slam panel it's painted Oxford Blue micatalic (a big selling point for me as the colour is gorgeous!) and the 'net seems to suggest not many '99 P38s were painted that colour....
It has 18" Hurricane alloys (although the spare is a regular 16" alloy) and the bumpers and mirrors are body colour coded. Plus - there's a branded Range Rover rubberized bull bar and slatted light guards front and rear fitted with side steps & mudflaps. Inside it's Lightstone leather, piped in blue and really nicely spec'd - full climate control with heated windscreen, electric heated seats with driver's memory, Harman Kardon sound system, electric sunroof etc., lambswool over rug in the back and more wood on the centre console than I've seen before - the wood extends all the way from the rear ashtray through to around the instrument binnacle and includes the gearknob, radio and central switch panel. The steering wheel is wood and interior colour leather, with cruise and audio controls. The front headrests have been professionally converted with LCD screens for the rear seat passengers, with wireless headphones kept in neat individual mesh stowage above the load area. The screens are linked to a PS2 housed in a leather covered, custom built housing in the load area on the opposite side to the CD multichanger and it's all been nicely installed.

It's a lovely thing and I'm really pleased with it, although there are inevitably some niggles to iron out.... I'm just really curious about the spec.

So what's the opinion? Just a regular old P38 HSE that was well optioned? or a special build? It's a UK domestic market car and was originally sold new to a minor celebrity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,074 Posts
My '99 is Oxford Blue, great color. Body color bumpers and mirrors are usually on later models I believe, my '99 has black pieces. It sounds like some customization to the interior was also done. Land Rover is usually not shy about labeling special editions.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,197 Posts
Does it have a plate on the slam panel under the bonnet to say it was built by Land Rover Specialist Vehicles? Does it say Autobiography on the tailgate? Autobigraphy was a scheme were you could pick your own colour, trim and options and the cars were assrembled by LRSV rather than just standard spec off the production line. They were still registered as the model that was used as the base, hence 4.6 HSE but with extras. Either that or the options were added by an owner later. Most of what you have, climate control, heated screen, heated memory seats, Harmon Kardon sound (with steering wheel controls), sunroof, cruise control, headlamp wash/wipe, front fog lights, etc were all standard on the HSE. Was the PS2 even available in 1999?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
Full wood interior was an autobiography option on mine, as was the red piping on my ash black seats.

The body stuff is all factory options, the body coloured mirrors and bumper could have been done after, as I did.

It would be badged if it was a special edition I would think, and definitely would be if it was an autobiography.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Not badged anywhere, no LRSV badge on slam panel, just a standard LR identification sticker. Tailgate is de-badged (from new - original paint, never had a badge fitted). Certainly looks like bumpers and mirrors were done from new too. Bespoke boot cabinet was built for a PS One, but has been upgraded to PS2.
Sounds like it's just a well optioned HSE then... Was Oxford Blue a popular colour?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,197 Posts
One of the Autobiography options was no badges, so it could still be one. Or the upgrades have been done later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
I think you’d still have the metal special vehicles plaque riveted under the hood though. On the radiator support.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,197 Posts
Yes it would so it has either been taken off for some reason or it's got aftermarket mods.
 

·
LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
·
4,216 Posts
Does it have rear light guards aswell?

It sounds to me like it could be a Vogue spec, but without the badge on the tailgate. Mine is a 2001 Vogue, and came with loads of the options - nudge bar, spotlights, side-steps, light guards etc - and no tailgate badge - I believe because where it would fit on a standard Vogue, it won't fit if the light guards are there.

The Vogue spec was based on the 4.6 HSE, and then had things like the extra wood, wood/leather steering wheel etc. The seats on the later ones with '5 bars' (the leather is stitches so there are 5 thinner 'bars' of leather on the seat, rather than the earlier version which were 3 larger 'bars'. I believe the 5 bar seats were all finished with piping that went with the body colour - so on a blue P38, I'd expect blue piping.

If you have the mesh nets and wireless headphones, then it sounds like they were all factory options.

It could be that it was just a base 4.6HSE and the original purchasers ticked a load of extra boxes on the order form from the standard 'Land Rover' options, without quite going to the customisation of an Autobiography. I could be wrong, but I thought the P38 Autobiography scheme was only around for a couple of years - 1997/1998 before 1999 changeover brought a load of other options and enhancements anyway (BMW's influence). And it went from them being something more special as the Autobiography's were and just a base or vogue spec, with a load of tick boxes for additional options.

I'm pretty sure my nudge bar, light guards, side steps etc were all fitted at the factory - and were just factory fitted accessories, rather than being added after the car was first purchased..

Without seeing the actual build sheet of sales record of the vehicle, you will probably not have any real way of knowing though....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Hi, yes - it does have the rear light guards too and I think you're right, the location of the badges would clash with the guards by the looks of it....

Edit: Meant to say, the seats are the 5 bar style too.

Mine is a Thor engine, which I think makes it post-'99 facelift? is that right?

What set the Vogue SE's apart from the HSEs?

I tried calling the original supplying dealer (local to me and still a LR main dealer) but the phone just rang and rang.... probably more to do with these weird times we live in than anything else. I'm going to ask LR and see what info they have for sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
557 Posts
Does it have special vehicles plate on bonnet slam panel ?

If not then it's simply got whatever options the original dealer fitted for the customer at that time. HSE, SE, Vogue, etc. all vary quite considerably, and don't exactly relate to specific trim & options. The contract number will identify exactly what was fitted at the factory.



LR Special Vehicles Plate.jpg
 

·
Registered
MY02 Vogue
Joined
·
4 Posts
This thread is interesting. I'm trying to understand what makes my MY02 Vogue different to HSE. So this is a New Zealand spec car that has been in Australia since 2008, two previous owners and AFAIK completely original. I can't see that NZ spec should be all that different from any other country, but could be wrong.

My car is Oxford Blue/Lightstone. It seems to me that Vogue differences (over HSE) includes: body colour-painted side (wing) mirrors, body colour lower section, front bumper, 18in Hurricane wheels (instead of 16in wheels), chrome button tailgate release (not sure about that one), wood veneer/leather steering wheel, additonal wood veneer trim (eg upper centre stack, rear ashtray,) additional colour-matched leather trim (eg centre console cubby, centre console side panels). I think mine had the optional winter pack(? not sure), including heated windscreen and heated front seats. Or these last two items are std Vogue?

While my car has the five-panel leather, the piping looks black to me (ie not blue to match exterior colour).

My car also had fitted the front brush bar, side steps and it seems, taillight guards. I removed the first two and the last had already been removed by a PO. All that remains is the bolts screwed into the nutserts on the side panels/tailgate lower.

Interesting to see what (I presume) dealers did when fitting accessories like taillight guards. As far as I can tell (from press images of a 2001 RR Vogue, coincidentally exact colour scheme for mine) the 'Land Rover' and 'Vogue' badges are usually fitted high up on the lower tailgate. Those positions don't work if you've got to bolt on taillight goards, so on my car they simply moved the badges down, and it does look somehow wrong to my eyes. Mind you, I have noticed that tailgate badges are almost never the same on RR P38s. Every rear shot I see, they are in a different spot!
 

·
LEGACY VENDOR
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
·
4,216 Posts
Hi, yes - it does have the rear light guards too and I think you're right, the location of the badges would clash with the guards by the looks of it....

Edit: Meant to say, the seats are the 5 bar style too.

Mine is a Thor engine, which I think makes it post-'99 facelift? is that right?

What set the Vogue SE's apart from the HSEs?

I tried calling the original supplying dealer (local to me and still a LR main dealer) but the phone just rang and rang.... probably more to do with these weird times we live in than anything else. I'm going to ask LR and see what info they have for sure.
The 5 bar seats are standard with the 99MY changeover. The Oxford leather was an optional upgrade (even on Vogue spec), which came in about an extra £2K on the base price - even on the more expensive Vogue model (Mine has the Oxford leather aswell - which I didn't know was anything special for a year or so until someone mentioned to me I had "the really nice and soft leather". I then ended up finding not so long ago a sales brochure with pricing for the 2000/2001 MY vehicles and saw the price and was like "WOW")

Vogue SE was a "Special Edition" Vogue vehicle - so in the later MY's there was the occasional 4.0SE (standard edition), the 4.6HSE, the Vogue, and then the Vogue SE - (though there were plenty of other special edition vehicles too). The Vogue model had more wood trim, leather instead of plastic/cloth finishing in places, and the factory fitted navigation system with the now notorious DSP amplifier, and coloured carpet. Externally colour coded bumpers, chrome tailgate button, Vogue badge, and the rubbing strips in the doors had a chrome stripe. . The Vogue SE had an additional speaker in the centre of the dash, speakers in the loadspace trims, and I think and extra speaker in each rear door. The black vogue SE's had Piano Black wood trim instead of the burr walnut from the Vogue, and they all got a Vogue SE badge.

I am sure there are other, more subtle differences I've forgotten.. a lot of it is detailed in James Taylor's book on the P38.

Post '99 is the 'Facelift' - with the black background to the headlamps, the clear front fog lights. And yes, the petrol vehicles got the Bosch Motronic engine management.


This thread is interesting. I'm trying to understand what makes my MY02 Vogue different to HSE. So this is a New Zealand spec car that has been in Australia since 2008, two previous owners and AFAIK completely original. I can't see that NZ spec should be all that different from any other country, but could be wrong.

My car is Oxford Blue/Lightstone. It seems to me that Vogue differences (over HSE) includes: body colour-painted side (wing) mirrors, body colour lower section, front bumper, 18in Hurricane wheels (instead of 16in wheels), chrome button tailgate release (not sure about that one), wood veneer/leather steering wheel, additonal wood veneer trim (eg upper centre stack, rear ashtray,) additional colour-matched leather trim (eg centre console cubby, centre console side panels). I think mine had the optional winter pack(? not sure), including heated windscreen and heated front seats. Or these last two items are std Vogue?

While my car has the five-panel leather, the piping looks black to me (ie not blue to match exterior colour).

My car also had fitted the front brush bar, side steps and it seems, taillight guards. I removed the first two and the last had already been removed by a PO. All that remains is the bolts screwed into the nutserts on the side panels/tailgate lower.

Interesting to see what (I presume) dealers did when fitting accessories like taillight guards. As far as I can tell (from press images of a 2001 RR Vogue, coincidentally exact colour scheme for mine) the 'Land Rover' and 'Vogue' badges are usually fitted high up on the lower tailgate. Those positions don't work if you've got to bolt on taillight goards, so on my car they simply moved the badges down, and it does look somehow wrong to my eyes. Mind you, I have noticed that tailgate badges are almost never the same on RR P38s. Every rear shot I see, they are in a different spot!
I don't believe the NZ spec (at least on appearance/features) is any different... biggest differences is that the instrument cluster is in KPH & L/100km instead of MPH & MPG. I can't remember if the NZ/Aus spec RF locking was on 315mhz or 433mhz like UK/Europe.

Heated front windscreen and seats was a HSE and above spec as standard AFAIK. 18" wheels were also standard on most vehicle later in the production years.

My first HSE in NZ was a 1995 and had 16's on it, and also had heated seats/front screen. My '98 HSE then had 18" Modials and heated seats/front screen, and my current '01 Vogue here in the UK has 18" Comets/heated seats/front screen. (which were also an optional extra at something like £800 at the time!).

Definitely worth looking up James Taylor's book for anyone interested in the different specs!
 

·
Registered
MY02 Vogue
Joined
·
4 Posts
Thanks Marty. Sounds like I do need to grab a copy of James Taylor's book!
I'd forgotten about the chrome section in the rubbing strips, another Vogue point of difference.
My car does not have the Nav unit, or any evidence of it having been fitted, and its build sheet doesn't mention it, although it has the Alpine HU and DSP system (or a version of?). It also does not have full body colour bumpers, just the lower section of the front bumper. While I've seen an Oxford Blue/Sandstone UK Vogue online with blue carpeting, mine is light coloured matching the rest of the interior (even more so faded by the Aussie sun!)
I'm trying to find late P38 spec info for Oz, but it's hard to come by (brochures or press material). Most of later HSEs I've seen here have five-spoke 16in wheels. All the Oz Vogues I've seen have Satnav.
My car has 433MHz although speaking to a few people, there were both 315 and 433MHz earlier on in Australia.
I've lost the build sheet pdf so will have to look it up again, but I'm fairly sure my car had the screen/seat heating as a 'cold climate market' (or similar) option. I don't think Aussie spec cars had this (for obvious reasons).
A few oddities for us Antipodeans: Aussie cars all must have childseat tether points, so these had to be added to my NZ car when imported to Oz as a personal import. The towbar, while having an offical Land Rover sticker on it, was actually made by Best Bars NZ, who do a lot of OEM stuff for Australia too. While the bar has 3500kg max capacity, it only allows 150kg TBM, so I'll need to get an Aussie bar (250kg TBM) onto it when I start towing anything heavy.
 

·
Registered
1995-2002 Range Rover P38A
Joined
·
48 Posts
With regards to the exterior adornments that is known as the "country pack" which was optioned with some P38s..

The interior could be either a very well spec'd HSE or an autobiography, usually they were listed as such in the service portfolio or like already said it should have a plaque on the slam panel..

Without this plaque it is an HSE.

The Vogue came in 2000 wearing V X W plates respectively so from what i remember yours is an HSE.

The best way to have a definite answer is to go to land rover for a build sheet, the Vogue model's interior package was known as the "TL4" HSE was "TL3"

Autobiography was it's own entity..

It is also possible most of the interior adornments have been added by an enthusiastic owner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Excellent replies, thank you.
I still haven't been able to get hold of Land Rover at the supplying dealers to ask if they have build details as they never answer the phone... however I've run the details through one of the online checkers and it came back with quite a lot of detail. This seems to confirm that mine is indeed a 4.6HSE (EXTERIOR DECAL - 4.6 HSE SILVER TL3 [XXD160] ) - I'm presuming the decals were removed when the light guards were fitted.
Looks like it originally came on 16" wheels (WHEELS & TYRES - 8JX16 LIGHTNING PIRELLI [XWT490] ), so it must have been upgraded to 18" at some point very early in it's life - possibly at the dealer again.
Trim is described as 'wood' (TRIM WOOD - Trim Level 2/3 Auto RHS [XTW035]) with trim level '3' everywhere else I can see (e.g. DOORS - Trim Level 3 CD L/Stone [XDR492] )
On the body it's just down for the normal stuff (EXTERIOR ORNAMENTATION - Exterior Mouldings RHS 99 [XXO096]; MUD FLAPS - Mudflaps Dual Exhaust [XMF034] ) so the presumption is that the side steps, brush bar and light guards etc. were all dealer fit.
Seats are listed as "SEATS - Leather 6 way Drv Mem Rhs (LS) 99my [XSE849]"

I was curious as I bought my car off the 2nd owner who'd had it since it was 16 months old. He'd reported that it came into his ownership as it was when I bought it, with all accessories already fitted, so the first owner must have spent a chunk on dealer-fit upgrades when new..... Interesting for me and thanks for the info posted above - all really useful and insightful. I'm enjoying getting under the skin of my car!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,197 Posts
So it appears that it was supplied as a standard HSE but on 16" wheels for some reason, 18" was standard on the HSE. The decals it mentions are the Range Rover badging on the bonnet and tailgate but it would have also had 4.6HSE in silver on the RHS of the tailgate, as you say, that was probably removed when the lightguards were fitted. Trim level 3 wouldn't have included the wood on the dash or the leather/wood steering wheel. Sounds like someone wanted a Vogue but wasn't prepared to wait so bought an HSE and had the extras added.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top