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It actually sounds like lack of oil at start-up. Do you know what type of oil was used when it was recently changed? The Land Rover specification for diesel oil is full synthetic 5W-30 meeting STJLR.03.5005. Not every 5W-30 meets this standard and may not have the additives that are friendly to the diesel particulate filter or that cause the oil to stick to the moving parts when the motor isn't running. If it's thicker/heavier than 5W-30 such as 10W-30 or 20W-30 it doesn't flow as easily and takes a bit longer to reach the moving parts.
I 100% agree with Mancerator! That sound is called "Timing Chain Slap" upon start up. The "new oil" isn't the right type and it isn't getting to all the critical components upon start-up! I'll tell you exactly what is happening. As all "new" Variable Valve Timing Engines require near 100% oil pressure the entire time the engine is running, and especially upon start up and when that damned "Auto-Start" feature is in operation at every red-light... The pistons/Actuators that press up against the Timing Chain Guides/Arms that both together advance and correct the engine timing... the whole system demands nearly 100% oil pressure constantly to work correctly. Oil of the wrong type, not enough of the correct oil type, and dirty-ass oil over 6K miles will all cause this problem.

***Every cold start up your engine is effectually out of time causing damage each and every time until 100% oil pressure become present enough for the Actuators to act upon the Chain Guide Arms in order to Advance and Correct the timing for 100% efficiency and performance!

* Also, oil isn't getting to the critical parts of the engine until way late in the start-up sequence... Causing excessive wear on the "piston rod bearings" the "rods" and they work off the "Crank-Shaft" which is essentially at the heart of the engine.*

***I say these parts because they are the one's that failed on my engine from dirty oil and from oil starvation...

The previous owner of mine followed JLR's 16,000 mile oil changes... The Original 5.0Liter "AJ-V8sc" engine spent most of it's life with a starved oil sump, oil starved engine, with dirty-ass oil and it created the PERFECT STORM and destroyed the engine 50 days or so after I bought her gently used... $40,000 and a long story later... she needed a new "Crate" OEM AJ-V8sc" Engine due to a slung rod, destroyed rod bearing, and a deeply gouged crank shaft because of all the stress on those parts for 80% of it's life. JLR doesn't like to fix engines but would rather replace them. Thank God that HE made the Warranty Company fix it (they tried everything they could not to), and it only costed me $500, some grey hairs/sleepless nights, and 30 full days without my baby! Now I have a very gently used Rover with a new "AJ-V8sc" Engine that gains a few horsies and foot pounds of torque as she Synch's up and polishes herself from use every 500 miles. She also gets a deeper sounding exhaust note that is very noticeable above 4,000 rpm's as she breaks-in. My last high performance vehicle did the same thing but every 2,000 or so miles up until the 20,000 mile mark. I like the Rover and it's break-in much process/progress more!

Now, I change her oil myself every 6,000 miles and will every (4,500 if I've been driving her hard), with an OEM filter and 0w-20 Castrol Professional from the Dealer that is >5 miles from me thankfully. I changed the oil 2,500 miles ago after the first new 1,000 miles (kept RPM's under 4,000 during break-in), gently put on her. It was the d@mned nastiest & certainly the most dirty oil I've ever personally seen in my 20 years of changing our oil too. I can't imagine driving another 15,000 miles on it per JLR's "STUPID MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE"... It's too much to ask out of any oil and puts 3 times the stress the engine than it's under operating normally. What a stupid and ill-advised way to break in a new engine and set up for failure from the dealership parking lot right from the start in my experience and opinion.

* @bangbang * Get that oil changed out to JLR approved and Specified oil IMMEDIATELY and enough of it with an OEM filter. I'd personally would park it until you drive it on Tuesday strait to the dealer! Watch them change the oil, filter and what type they are using if you have to!

It costs me $150 twice a year to change my own oil and it takes me longer to get my tools and ramps out and put away than it does to change my oil with this set-up pictured below. (You might want to think about changing it yourself as well to make sure it's done right with the right oil/filter and enough of it.) Below is a pic of a 10 Liter Oil Sump "Pneumatic" Pump I bought off Amazon for $100 and a $28 Billet Aluminum (I forget the size now) Oil Wrench for the filter removal/install. It's cheap insurance for my High Performance and very Expensive Engine... The sump-pump makes sure I never have to crawl underneath and loosen the dozen or so Skid-Plate bolts to get access to the drain plug (messy way to change oil btw) and takes about 5 minutes to drain completely when level... Then I pour in 7.5Quarts of the Castrol 0w/20 (after a JLR filter change using a torque wrench to ensure exact manufacture's spec for filter tighness) and re-install the oil filler cap. Why only 7.5 Quarts? In case there is any old oil in the sump or clinging to engine internals... Overfilling the sump can and will cause a whole set of problems on it's own. Plus I can always add more oil in minutes as I carry 1 full quart always with me in the Rover's "Recovery Kit Bag" for just in case.

I check the oil level every other day via the dash board... (A 15 second process before start up) is how important and oil pressure sensitive these VVT equipped engines are... and I never want to go thru an engine replacement again as so many things could go wrong and you just may well be stuck with the price yourself!

I hope this helps you BangBang... Let us know how this turns out. With the right, clean oil and enough of it that timing chain slap should permanantly go away and your engine should be good to go if you jumped on this problem in time (it seems you have)! Good luck brother!
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Discussion starter · #25 ·
I 100% agree with Mancerator! That sound is called "Timing Chain Slap" upon start up. The "new oil" isn't the right type and it isn't getting to all the critical components upon start-up! I'll tell you exactly what is happening. As all "new" Variable Valve Timing Engines require near 100% oil pressure the entire time the engine is running, and especially upon start up and when that damned "Auto-Start" feature is in operation at every red-light... The pistons/Actuators that press up against the Timing Chain Guides/Arms that both together advance and correct the engine timing... the whole system demands nearly 100% oil pressure constantly to work correctly. Oil of the wrong type, not enough of the correct oil type, and dirty-ass oil over 6K miles will all cause this problem.

***Every cold start up your engine is effectually out of time causing damage each and every time until 100% oil pressure become present enough for the Actuators to act upon the Chain Guide Arms in order to Advance and Correct the timing for 100% efficiency and performance!

* Also, oil isn't getting to the critical parts of the engine until way late in the start-up sequence... Causing excessive wear on the "piston rod bearings" the "rods" and they work off the "Crank-Shaft" which is essentially at the heart of the engine.*

***I say these parts because they are the one's that failed on my engine from dirty oil and from oil starvation...

The previous owner of mine followed JLR's 16,000 mile oil changes... The Original 5.0Liter "AJ-V8sc" engine spent most of it's life with a starved oil sump, oil starved engine, with dirty-ass oil and it created the PERFECT STORM and destroyed the engine 50 days or so after I bought her gently used... $40,000 and a long story later... she needed a new "Crate" OEM AJ-V8sc" Engine due to a slung rod, destroyed rod bearing, and a deeply gouged crank shaft because of all the stress on those parts for 80% of it's life. JLR doesn't like to fix engines but would rather replace them. Thank God that HE made the Warranty Company fix it (they tried everything they could not to), and it only costed me $500, some grey hairs/sleepless nights, and 30 full days without my baby! Now I have a very gently used Rover with a new "AJ-V8sc" Engine that gains a few horsies and foot pounds of torque as she Synch's up and polishes herself from use every 500 miles. She also gets a deeper sounding exhaust note that is very noticeable above 4,000 rpm's as she breaks-in. My last high performance vehicle did the same thing but every 2,000 or so miles up until the 20,000 mile mark. I like the Rover and it's break-in much process/progress more!

Now, I change her oil myself every 6,000 miles and will every (4,500 if I've been driving her hard), with an OEM filter and 0w-20 Castrol Professional from the Dealer that is >5 miles from me thankfully. I changed the oil 2,500 miles ago after the first new 1,000 miles (kept RPM's under 4,000 during break-in), gently put on her. It was the d@mned nastiest & certainly the most dirty oil I've ever personally seen in my 20 years of changing our oil too. I can't imagine driving another 15,000 miles on it per JLR's "STUPID MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE"... It's too much to ask out of any oil and puts 3 times the stress the engine than it's under operating normally. What a stupid and ill-advised way to break in a new engine and set up for failure from the dealership parking lot right from the start in my experience and opinion.

* @bangbang * Get that oil changed out to JLR approved and Specified oil IMMEDIATELY and enough of it with an OEM filter. I'd personally would park it until you drive it on Tuesday strait to the dealer! Watch them change the oil, filter and what type they are using if you have to!

It costs me $150 twice a year to change my own oil and it takes me longer to get my tools and ramps out and put away than it does to change my oil with this set-up pictured below. (You might want to think about changing it yourself as well to make sure it's done right with the right oil/filter and enough of it.) Below is a pic of a 10 Liter Oil Sump "Pneumatic" Pump I bought off Amazon for $100 and a $28 Billet Aluminum (I forget the size now) Oil Wrench for the filter removal/install. It's cheap insurance for my High Performance and very Expensive Engine... The sump-pump makes sure I never have to crawl underneath and loosen the dozen or so Skid-Plate bolts to get access to the drain plug (messy way to change oil btw) and takes about 5 minutes to drain completely when level... Then I pour in 7.5Quarts of the Castrol 0w/20 (after a JLR filter change using a torque wrench to ensure exact manufacture's spec for filter tighness) and re-install the oil filler cap. Why only 7.5 Quarts? In case there is any old oil in the sump or clinging to engine internals... Overfilling the sump can and will cause a whole set of problems on it's own. Plus I can always add more oil in minutes as I carry 1 full quart always with me in the Rover's "Recovery Kit Bag" for just in case.

I check the oil level every other day via the dash board... (A 15 second process before start up) is how important and oil pressure sensitive these VVT equipped engines are... and I never want to go thru an engine replacement again as so many things could go wrong and you just may well be stuck with the price yourself!

I hope this helps you BangBang... Let us know how this turns out. With the right, clean oil and enough of it that timing chain slap should permanantly go away and your engine should be good to go if you jumped on this problem in time (it seems you have)! Good luck brother!
View attachment 288983
Hi. The oil was changed 4000 kms ago using proper oil from Land Rover.

about one month ago the throttle body was replaced by dealer.

there is no noise when using auto start / stop in traffic

hope the dealer doesn’t try to blame the oil which was purchased from them.

Looks like greys and sleepless nights till this gets resolved

the vehicle is still under factory warranty
 
Hi. The oil was changed 4000 kms ago using proper oil from Land Rover.

about one month ago the throttle body was replaced by dealer.

there is no noise when using auto start / stop in traffic

hope the dealer doesn’t try to blame the oil which was purchased from them.

Looks like greys and sleepless nights till this gets resolved

the vehicle is still under factory warranty
There is no noise with the Auto-Start because oil is still everywhere in the engine including on the essential parts still unless you let it sit for about an hour not running.

That is good it's still under factory warranty as it's technically, "Their Problem" for now. Just request their "Shop Foreman" to look at it with you and show that video to them. He will know good and darn well what that sound is...

I was told by both the Master Mechanic and my Service Advisor that there has been 2-3 Internal Memorandums about this exact problem and it's causes... JLR advised that all the Petrol/Gasoline V6 and V8's (I don't know about the Diesel models) are to have their oil swapped out, changed, and filled with Castrol Professional 0w-20 and OEM filter as Preventative Maintenance... You won't find such a Memo online as it was internal but it does exist. The Shop Foreman is the best In-House Mechanic the Dealer has (at least he's supposed to be) would have been at JLR for a long while and most certainly has knowledge of these Memo's.

The Shop Foreman listened to my original engine for 2 seconds and yelled me to turn it off before a rod was punched thru the entire block. He diagnosed the problem with my Rover in 5 seconds and was telling me all that I posted in my previous post and spent a good 20 minutes with me that the sound is a Spun Rod and Bearing and that the engine had to be replaced. Then he went into the causes, wrong type of oil, not enough of it, and dirty oil. He asked was I the Original Owner and said no... He said wait, you'll see I'm right and he was. He also said that in over 20 years experience at JLR he has only seen 2 other AJ-V8 engines come in with this problem...

Just make sure they are using exactly what your manual says in type, spec, and weight of oil when they change it!

I don't know how or why the throttle body would be the cause. What was it doing to need to be replaced? Did they actually replace the TB or did they just "Clean-it-out"???
 
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Discussion starter · #27 ·
There is no noise with the Auto-Start because oil is still everywhere in the engine including on the essential parts still unless you let it sit for about an hour not running.

That is good it's still under factory warranty as it's technically, "Their Problem" for now. Just request their "Shop Foreman" to look at it with you and show that video to them. He will know good and darn well what that sound is...

I was told by both the Master Mechanic and my Service Advisor that there has been 2-3 Internal Memorandums about this exact problem and it's causes... JLR advised that all the Petrol/Gasoline V6 and V8's (I don't know about the Diesel models) are to have their oil swapped out, changed, and filled with Castrol Professional 0w-20 and OEM filter as Preventative Maintenance... You won't find such a Memo online as it was internal but it does exist. The Shop Foreman is the best In-House Mechanic the Dealer has (at least he's supposed to be) would have been at JLR for a long while and most certainly has knowledge of these Memo's.

The Shop Foreman listened to my original engine for 2 seconds and yelled me to turn it off before a rod was punched thru the entire block. He diagnosed the problem with my Rover in 5 seconds and was telling me all that I posted in my previous post and spent a good 20 minutes with me that the sound is a Spun Rod and Bearing and that the engine had to be replaced. Then he went into the causes, wrong type of oil, not enough of it, and dirty oil. He asked was I the Original Owner and said no... He said wait, you'll see I'm right and he was. He also said that in over 20 years experience at JLR he has only seen 2 other AJ-V8 engines come in with this problem...

Just make sure they are using exactly what your manual says in type, spec, and weight of oil when they change it!

I don't know how or why the throttle body would be the cause. What was it doing to need to be replaced? Did they actually replace the TB or did they just "Clean-it-out"???
With regards to throttle body The vehicle was having a erratic check engine light and I scanned with gap tool and it was an overboost error.

the dealer could not find a fault after clearing the code.

luckily I found a tsb and they agreed throttle body needs replacing.

the replaced the hose as well as it was clogged.

just checked and oil level is fine. Oil type is fine.

vehicle is going in tuesday.

Let’s see.
 
What is the Oil-Type and specified "Spec" in your manual, i.e... its brand, weight, viscosity, etc?
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
I also have a 2016 TD6 with 35K miles. I'm in AZ and have never noticed that but even after parked overnight the oil is warm and circulates right away. Assuming it's lifters, it sound like it's taking a few seconds for oil pressure to build and oil to reach the them. The obvious first step is to check the oil level.
Land Rover only approves the use of 5W-30 meeting their 3.0 diesel specification STJLR.03.5005. A low viscosity number of 5 is pretty fluid, probably to get oil circulated quickly upon start-up. The LR spec may also have additives that stick on metal parts after shut-off. If yours has been dealer serviced it probably has the correct oil. If not you may want to purchase some and an OEM filter and provide it to whoever does your oil changes.
There's also a company called Blackstone Labs ( www.blackstone-labs.com ) that can analyze your oil and tell you the viscosity, various elements such as metals or antifreeze, whether additives are holding up, whether there are signs fuel is getting in the oil etc.

hello, do you get lifter noise while driving ? i find a clattering noises and lifter noises while accelerating
 
I am using edge professional 5w30 purchased rom the dealer. Apparently it’s made only for Land Rover Diesel engines.
Yes it is... Us with the V8sc engines run the Castrol Professional 0w-20 and it's the manual's first choice while the same type you are using is an acceptable 2nd if the 0w-20 isnt available. However JLR has circulated a few internal Memo's stating that every RR that comes in for service to be switched to Castrol Professional 0w-20 weighted oil. I learned this while my engine was being replaced due to the previous owner; while following oil change schedule by factory mandates... the oil needs to be changed every 6K, not 16Kmiles. Both the service tech spoke of this memo and the master mechanic that performed the engine swap about the 0w-20 weighted oil switch. They said the 5w-20 doesn't get to the critical area's of the engine after a cold start up due to being a bit too thick and less viscous... Hence the call for both the Lighter and more Viscous Castrol Professional 0w-20... In fact, I believe the Shop Foreman told me this too back in January as well as about multiple memorandums about the subject.

When I performed my first oil change on the L494 I went to the Land Rover North Atlanta to buy the oil and filter. In their stock room the 0w-20 was stacked half way to the ceiling and they carried no other weighted nor type of oil. It backs up what the service tech, master mechanic, and shop foreman said to me.
 
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Discussion starter · #35 ·
Hello, update on this knocking sound is that it is normal ( as per land rover ).

I am wondering if any members with the 2016 diesel can do a cold start video so I can show the dealer what a normal engine sounds like.

I am attaching another video which clearly shows the knocking noise at start and disappear's after a few seconds..

If anyone can post or email videos of cold start that would be much appreciated.
 
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