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L322 front end is almost exactly the same as e38 or e39.
The cv failed in low range under engine braking. A piece of ice must have cut the boot.
So to you, all independent front suspensions are the same. I think its pretty well understood that an IFS was done to improve the on-road driving experience over the P38, which it did. Was is a compromise that allowed more parts exposed to off-road damage, yes it was. Sounds like you want something with a live axle, a P38 or a Jeep. Hard to believe you broke a CV boot and it immediately cratered. Your boot was probably open for some time. CV boots, brakes, tires, come on, you know those are wear items. Sounds like you or previous owners have mistreated your transmissions. Again, since you think ZF's are crap, what should they have used?
 

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Blah blah blah here we go again. What a load of clap trap. But do carry on. This kind of ranting shows just how little you know about these cars.

Your name isn't EEHam by any chance?
Lol!
 

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You tell us to keep negativity out of your threads and now that there’s a dedicated thread to complain, all the fanboys show up to defend #139 of 139 in Consumer Reports.


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You tell us to keep negativity out of your threads and now that there’s a dedicated thread to complain, all the fanboys show up to defend #139 of 139 in Consumer Reports.
What else would you expect? All of us to agree and put our L322's up for sale? Why would anyone but fanboys be on this page? Why do you still own one? Sell and go get something simpler that meets your needs and leave us alone.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
I'm known where I live because I always drive a FFRR usually in red I am a fanboy. I am always defending how range rovers aren't all that bad, and how you can find the parts if you do your research etc etc. This is the straw that broke that camels back. The L322 just isn't tough and way two maintenance heavy.

Things like brakes and tires are expected but 20-30k intervals that is pathetic.

Sacrificial suspension components... that is total bs. I use lemforder and they still don't last. And yes they are torqued under load.

I'm butt sore about the cv because it revealed the l322 doesn't even have real transfer case I always assumed it did.

I'm the biggest LR fanboy I know but I cant really be behind the l322 anymore. It is just way to underbuilt with old BMW tech, which I'm very familiar with and its totally unsuitable for the range rovers size. BMW wanted to build the x5 and used LR to make that happen. I bought the 4.2 supercharged with hopes it would put a little British back but the German transmission ate itself and the whole things was mechanically totaled. Ill probably get another 4.2 some day and run this BMW l322 into the ground. When people ask me about l322s I give them my honest opinion they are not very well engineered and break a lot.
 

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Design of the front suspension is very similar to X5, yes, but RR’s parts are much more heavier and bigger, i.e. adjusted for the weight of vehicle.
I don’t see anything wrong being similar to the “ultimate driving machine” suspension style. I bet that a bmw or Range Rover handles better, particularity at high speeds, compared to a toyota or lexus SUVs...and Range Rover is way more comfortable vs bmw (3 SUVs in the garage: X5, L405 and QX80)
 

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Range Rover MkIII / L322
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"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

I love that proverb and one sees it so often on so many different forums dealing with so many different topics and I shake my head every time I read this type of thread.
One should not make blanketing statements about something one knows very little about and claim to be very knowledgeable. Every post you make reinforces this lack of knowledge.

There are some who will spring to your defence and invariably they know even less - I am not going to point fingers but we all know who I mean.

I am sorry that you have had bad experiences with your vehicles but tarring all Range Rovers with the same brush is just silly. Find someone who really knows the car to do the maintenance and it will provide years of enjoyable motoring. Or learn more about the car instead of calling BS on information that is factual.
 
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Discussion Starter #28
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

I love that proverb and one sees it so often on so many different forums dealing with so many different topics and I shake my head every time I read this type of thread.
One should not make blanketing statements about something one knows very little about and claim to be very knowledgeable. Every post you make reinforces this lack of knowledge.

There are some who will spring to your defence and invariably they know even less - I am not going to point fingers but we all know who I mean.

I am sorry that you have had bad experiences with your vehicles but tarring all Range Rovers with the same brush is just silly. Find someone who really knows the car to do the maintenance and it will provide years of enjoyable motoring. Or learn more about the car instead of calling BS on information that is factual.
I have owed a classic 3 p38s a disco 1 and 2 l322s. I’ve also owned an x5 540 530 740 328 and 528e. The suspension bushings in the frontend are the same part as x5 the trans and motor are from a 740i electrics are from e39. I’ve read the rave front to back I’m not talking out of my ass. Anyone who’s turned a wrench on an l322 can attest to the the fact it’s old bmw tech. It may have been slightly beefed up, but not enough. L322 was developed aside the x5 under bmw ownership. Stop making blanket statements about my knowledge I’ve owned the cars since I was 16. My eyes don’t lie when even a simple hose clamp is marked bmw. The early l322 is made of obsolete bmw parts dating back to the mid 90’s, a lot of that tech carried over throughout the production. It’s not very robust and I don’t think much of it was up to the weight of the l322. When pushed the l322 falls apart, but on the road it’s much happier than the previous generations. I wouldn’t recommend it for anything more serious than a dirt road. It’s a shame because it has looks to kill just not much backing it up.
 
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These are very expensive cars to start out and unless their performance is far and away better than other cars in their class the only reason to pay that premium is reliability. There is no excuse for a vehicle that performs essentially equal to it competition to have reliability this poor. All these fan boys that claim if something fails it's usually do to lack of maintenance crack me up. Why would this car NEED so much more "maintenance" than any other? Normally, you don't have to do "maintenance" on transmissions and suspensions with 50k miles! I've logged millions of miles on dozens of cars in my life and NEVER had a suspension failure, EVER. There are dozens of failure points in the air bag system and reading this forum is shocking with how often they occur. The claim that the 6HP is very reliable may be true mechanically, but the garbage RR software makes it fail! Applying torque converter lockup in every gear from 2nd on up is absurd. Of course it's going to cause premature converter clutch failure with that kind of load on them. The "adaptation" program eventually creates a condition that doesn't downshift from 2nd to 1st until after the car has stopped and causes a massive clunk as it slams into first if the driver has already started to accelerate again when it decides to hit 1st gear. The really sad part is that RR never solved these issues with any of their "Updates" that stopped being "updated" years ago and no after market company makes a tool to make changes to the software yourself so you can't even fix it if you know how! A poorly engineered transmission cooler clogs up because it uses radiator fluid that is required to flow through passages that are way too small for the standard debris that every cooling system generates causing transmission overheating and sometimes failure. If designed properly none of these systems would require any special "maintenance" and it is a shame that such a cool vehicle that there are so many fatal flaws designed into them.
 

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My $0.02.
My 08 is my third behind my 98 bought new and my 02 bought used.
My 08 L322 SC is by and far the most reliable Rover I’ve owned. Maybe a unicorn. But I’m very pleased with it.
I wouldn’t hesitate to drive it cross country. My 02 P38 I don’t trust to the convenience store without AAA on speed dial.


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I like my rover. Driving a range rover made me a better man, now i can fix everything and i have tools for 2 indy garage. Yesterday neighbor asked me about his toyota, i said wait a minute, took my scanner from trunk, diagnosed his junk send him to mechanic to fix no compression on first cylinder. Father in law always give his land cruiser me to fix it.

Never complain on your car and wife. It is a choise you made.

If you want to drive a range rover you have to find the range rover. Every rover is a unique car.
I have engine problems from day1 my friend has electrical issues from day1.
Everybody asks me why you are don’t selling this shitbox.
I am saying this is my car, i love it and he explains me
The main problem with all land rover is lack of masters. Even bloody stealer doesn’t have good masters to fix those cars.

From my experience
Body is good for 15 years.
Interior is good i had 2 problems paint on plastics and steering wheel leather.
Transmission is not that bad
Engine is reliable the best engine land rover ever have 4.2sc. I have still problems but i cant say it is not reliable
Air suspension. The best of the best
For 15 years i replaced front bags. The yakuza made air compressor is the best part in land rover history. Rear bags are bulletproof
Still have problems. Left mirror is not working not closing not heating, rear view camera gone year ago, subwoofer is gone 3 years ago.
I dont have time to fix them because for 4 years i am dealing with engine problems.

If you are a partchanger rovers are great. Everything is plug and play, replace everything and you find the culprit.

Anyone is searching or thinking abiut buying a rover. First, budget. Second, a good diagnosis
You can buy a rover for 2000$ or you can buy a rover for 10.000. First one needs fixing obviously
Dont forget every range rover is unique
Every range rover is crazy and has crazy problems

People get married with pornstars why we have to sell our stars
 

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I have owed 2 L322s.
I see. So this makes you very knowledgeable. All righty then...

No one is arguing about whether the cars have many BMW parts in them. We are arguing about whether they are junk or not. In my opinion they are over engineered for what they were designed for. Anyone with more than half a brain will know that if you try to use any type of machine to do something that it was not designed for, its not going to preform correctly or it will fail. These cars were not designed to be hard core off-roaders and it ridiculous that people abuse them and then whine when they dont work properly or they dont last.

I will use blanketing statements about some things especially when every word you write proves those statements. Perhaps you are an expert in every other vehicle you have owned but its blatantly obvious that you are not one on the L322.

It apparent that many people dont understand engineering and design. They use it, abuse it, dont maintain it correctly and it fails and that makes it a bad design. FFS. You can take the toughest car on the planet and abuse it beyond what it is designed for and guess what will happen. It will break.

In response to Gadzooks2's post - did you ever do as recommended with your gearbox snag? Since that discussion we had, I have done 3 more 6HP26 gearbox jobs that all had the same shift problem that you were experiencing. And all 3 were cured 100%. Thats where I keep on harping about correct maintenance - your indy did failed to do what was necessary which led to your continuing issues. Or have my experiences with sorting out this gearbox just been a series of flukes?
 
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Discussion Starter #33
I see. So this makes you very knowledgeable. All righty then...

No one is arguing about whether the cars have many BMW parts in them. We are arguing about whether they are junk or not. In my opinion they are over engineered for what they were designed for. Anyone with more than half a brain will know that if you try to use any type of machine to do something that it was not designed for, its not going to preform correctly or it will fail. These cars were not designed to be hard core off-roaders and it ridiculous that people abuse them and then whine when they dont work properly or they dont last.

I will use blanketing statements about some things especially when every word you write proves those statements. Perhaps you are an expert in every other vehicle you have owned but its blatantly obvious that you are not one on the L322.

It apparent that many people dont understand engineering and design. They use it, abuse it, dont maintain it correctly and it fails and that makes it a bad design. FFS. You can take the toughest car on the planet and abuse it beyond what it is designed for and guess what will happen. It will break.

In response to Gadzooks2's post - did you ever do as recommended with your gearbox snag? Since that discussion we had, I have done 3 more 6HP26 gearbox jobs that all had the same shift problem that you were experiencing. And all 3 were cured 100%. Thats where I keep on harping about correct maintenance - your indy did failed to do what was necessary which led to your continuing issues. Or have my experiences with sorting out this gearbox just been a series of flukes?
Dude you’re such a tool. Everyone knows Land rovers are crap and we take jokes about it from every car person on the planet... except fellow Range Rover people. I’m proving that point with this thread. Your talking the finer points of engineering from the parts bin a Land Rover specialty since the beginning. l322 is under engineered to be the best 4x4Xfar or what ever Land Rover used to say. I would say besides the shell Land Rover didn’t have to engineer a single part other than maybe the eas.
 
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This post pains me to read for two reasons, first, for the OP Nacra52, getting stuck on the side of the road in the mountains due to a broken CV must be an absolutely horrible feeling. I know because I've had three breakdowns with Rover 1 (I own two 2004 L322 M62TU identical Rovers, 1 has 120k miles and 2 has 170k). So I can absolutely understand your frustration and upsettedness. And second, because it's easy to blame the car, the brand, or the design, but exponentially more difficult to identify why the component broke and what could have been done to prevent that from happening.

I'll share my experience and why I truly do love the L322, especially the early 2003-2005 "BMW" ones. I started with my first car ever, a 1991 BMW 850i at the age of 27. I was an enthusiast even before I owned it and worked hard, saved up my money to afford and care for that car. I meticulously restored it back to OEM standards over years, doing all the work myself, and mastering every component and system in that car. I can identify any part from the car, describe its function, remove/install/adjust it, and even fix individual parts that are supposedly non-serviceable. The skills I gained and the comfort I grew adjusted to is what attracted me to the 2003-2005 L322s, specifically the two 2004 Rovers I bought and own, because they are essentialy BMWs and share a wealth of parts and a knowledgebase. I've referenced countless tech articles and threads across both Land Rover and BMW-specific forums that have educated me about these cars.

A quick note. Rover 1 with 120,000 miles has been somewhat neglected by us, it needs a timing job badly (I've put it off for far too long), and has suffered a seized altenrator (left my wife stranded), a snapped bolt that holds a tensioner in place (left my wife and I and my visiting parents stranded on an interstate), and a dead fuel pump (left me stranded on the side of a route 10 mins from home). We needed a tow each time. All of that was caused by neglect and wasn't the fault of the car. Incidentally, the bigger issues like transmission issues and cooling we avoided entirely due to preventative maintenance (replaced the radiator, trans cooler, water pump, thermostats, all fluids and filters, had the transfer case motor rebuilt, etc.)

Now, Rover 2 we bought with 168,000 miles, where the previous owner suspected the timing chains had let go. While that wasn't exactly the case, we dismantled the engine and replaced almost every component we could reach (except valvetrain, head gaskets, and lower bearings), refurbished the Vanos transmissions, replaced every seal, timing chains and tensioners, and replaced EVERY component in the accessory Belt Drive System. Let me tell you something. Rover 2 is the most reliable car I've owned. Never left me stranded anywhere, and since doing that work we took a 2000 mile trip to Atlanta, GA (from MD) over the course of a week with stops along the way in the heat of summer August 2019, with triple digit temps in SC and GA. The car gave us ZERO issues. Recently, we took another impromptu trip to Atlanta and drove basically a 24 hour le mans style endurance race, we drove for 23 hours straight, with no more than 20 minutes for each stop, driving up to 90 MPH for up to an hour at a time through sections of NC and let me tell you, we took her from 169 to 170k miles with ZERO issues. Why? Because I labored on this car for months, looking at anything that could go wrong and replacing it. It was a labor of love and boy did it pay off.

I tell people regularly, I don't like the word "reliability" because really what most people mean when they ask that, is "will the car still work if i neglect to do maintenance on it?"

I tell people that any car can be reliable if you scrutinize its maintenance. Now, with that said, while I am a fan of the car, I'm not a "fanboy" that will rationalize that my cars are the best, they are not.

-If you cannot do 90% of your own work and fully understand and comprehend the systems in your car, then it's not the car for you. I've read the entire RAVE technical operating systems AND repair sections multiple times from end-to-end. I have ZERO formal auto mechanic training, but I'm comfortable to say I can address almost any issue and track it down with this car, except for very specialized engine and other ECU coding.

-Also you cannot own the car without a proper scan tool that can read every ECU. And you cannot own the car and expect it to be "reliable" if you cannot read the codes, understand the root cause of their issues, and resolve them yourself.

Some pros:
-One thing about the earlier models is their engines were far less complicated and run at no boost pressure, so they have more longevity than anything new that is running forced induction.
-Relatively inexpensive to buy parts, provided you shop around and don't buy from the dealership
-Systems are fairly easy to diganose, operate on, and fix since there is parts and ECU compatibility with BMW
-Land Rover from this generation did NOT lock down the coding/ECU for this car, and you can use any aftermarket coding solution (I'm talking full featured coding systems like Autel, AutoEnginuity [sp?], etc.) Additionally, Atlantic British's iLAND (bluetooth) and Storey Wilson's (RSW) AllComms are inexpensive aftermarket solutions that give owners very easy-to-use and affordable coding solutions. Try owning a newer Mercedes and let me know if you can find an inexpensive fully-featured coding solution! You will not!! I own two Mercedes and I'm selling them because I'm sick of the coding systems and lack of microcat!!
-LRCat (new.lrcat.ru) is a fully-feature microcat that is available to all L322 (and more Land Rover). You can basically look up ANY part in the vehicle and the diagrams can not only help you with replacement parts but also understanding how things fit together and come apart. For the 2003-2005 Rovers, you can also use the BMW microcat (realoem.com). There are not many manufacturers or cars that let you do this to the degree and level of detail that these TWO microcat options afford us.
-Because the cars are effectively BMWs, limp home options for both the transmission and engine are lifesavers when you have a major fault. People hate it when their cars go into a limp home mode, but they don't realize that the alternative is to be stuck on the side of the road. It's actually ingenious engineering to have an engine and transmission failsafe mode and it's saved me a tow several times.
-At this point in time, the used parts market for these cars is flourishing and you can purchased good known working used parts for cheap.

Some cons:
-You have to commit time and knowledge to maintaining the car to a good standard (enthusiast standard is my standard).
-Some, but not all parts, are expensive when purchased new and whole.
-When it breaks and you don't know how to fix it, or don't want to fix it, you can get really upset and post here. :)

Rant over.
 

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Dude you’re such a tool. Everyone knows Land rovers are crap and we take jokes about it from every car person on the planet... except fellow Range Rover people. I’m proving that point with this thread. Your talking the finer points of engineering from the parts bin a Land Rover specialty since the beginning. l322 is under engineered to be the best 4x4Xfar or what ever Land Rover used to say. I would say besides the shell Land Rover didn’t have to engineer a single part other than maybe the eas.
:LOL: Keep it up Nacra. You are your own worst enemy and you dont even know it :ROFLMAO:
 

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Discussion Starter #36
:LOL: Keep it up Nacra. You are your own worst enemy and you dont even know it :ROFLMAO:
Why because l322s are made of glass, too maintenance insensitive and lacking critical features of previous generations? Every mechanic and car journalists agree, unless they’re LR fanatics like us on the forums. I’m just sick of defending the point that it’s a good car to everyone who thinks I’m crazy for owning one. I like range rovers so I put up with it, but at this point I wouldn’t recommend one to anyone who cannot perform a lot of the work these cars require on their own.

Land Rover had moved away from what made them special. Look at the current lineup now... It was a better road car but l322 is where it began to lose it roots as a serious off roader. The lack of center diff lock really drove that home for me. I’ll put up with the dismal fuel consumption and annoying amount of maintenance, but the l322 sacrifices critical durability and performance.

To me that combination kind of sucks. It makes me understand the argument people have against these cars. I now longer feel the need to defend the l322 for these shortcomings. I simply laugh along and open my wallet. More costly though is my time, time better served with friends and family. Not changing a part you changed less than a year ago.
 
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More costly though is my time, time better served with friends and family. Not changing a part you changed less than a year ago.
I am very interested to know what has actually failed on your car? Has it ever left you personally stranded?

We had a couple of whiners on here a while ago who tried to push their opinions of Range Rovers onto the rest of us. One of whom had never owned a Range Rover!!! And the other who when questioned, had never had a failure but felt it was his job to run them down anyway.

Referring to the above quote of yours - are you talking about suspension bushes by any chance?
 

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:LOL: Keep it up Nacra. You are your own worst enemy and you dont even know it :ROFLMAO:
As explained in our earlier discussion, when the valve body and all solenoids were replaced by the independent trans shop, they could not get a re-flash done for the new mechtronic that was purchased with the valve body so it had NO program loaded at all. Their solution was to re-install my original mechtronic module and as I mentioned it worked perfectly for about 5 months. (now that I went back and revisited the thread). Then the late 2-1 shift came back. I have a Gap IID and tried resetting the trans adaptations and attempted the "drive cycle" many times but the late 2-1 shift when the car is driven in "Drive" always returns. There is no explanation why my untouched original mechtronic module would work for that long after the valve body change if it somehow had a bad program or was not "updated" correctly. It should have failed right away since nothing had been changed. That indicated to me that the original issues were related to the parts that were changed, solenoids and/or valve body. I don't believe any of those parts failed within 5 months. As always, I can shift manually from 2nd to first prior to stopping and the clunk never happens because I determined the shift point BEFORE stopping rather than allowing the "adapted" software to determine when it shifts. The process of shifting is the same whether the command to the solenoids comes from the shifter or from the software, the only difference is the timing and that is what causes the problem. I have learned to just drive the car carefully and ensure I come to complete stops and wait a second or two and this has managed to get 120K miles out of it so far when the dealership told me I had to have a new one at 72K miles for $10k. It's just an annoyance at this point. The failing torque converter clutch is more concerning now and I'm sure I will eventually have to replace the converter but again, the solution for that would be so simple if the software were the slightest bit programmable too.
 

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I dont want to hijack the thread discussing transmissions but did you get to keep the new mechatronic that they could not flash? I imagine that your original unit has a fault which can not be rectified with adpatation clearing and needs replacement or repair.

Referring to the software being programmable - I am sure it is, but not for us mere mortals. Same as on the tens of millions of ZF transmissions used on cars worldwide. I am struggling to see where this is the fault of the L322.

(Vehicles from other manufacturers suffer exactly the same problem)
 
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