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2011 Range Rover Supercharged
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100% your timing chain guides and disintegrated and ended up in the oil pan.
 

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2006-2009 Range Rover MkIII / L322
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This is crazy. Was this a 5 litre? Which model do you have and were there any other symptoms?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
rattle noise, and that was it, dropped the pan and there they were
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If you were me, and could not repair yourself, what would you do?

sell it as-is with needs repair, repair it....how much would that run approx? .............and I guess the big question is....... if this happened, and the guides and chain are replaced, what is to stop it from happening again? i.e. there must be a reason for it breaking up?

any advice would be appreciated thanks!
 

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2011 Range Rover Supercharged
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159 Posts
The guide failure on the BMW M62 engine is very common. It’s an issue with age and heat cycling of the plastic guides. High quality synthetic oil and frequent (5K mile) oil change intervals help.
I have a BMW 7-Series that has the same engine and I am almost at 180K miles on the original timing chain guides. I am an outlier for sure at this high mileage, but the vehicle has always had 5K mile oil changes with full synthetic. The chain tensioner was also replaced with the updated version which ensures good chain tension during engine start (before oil pressure builds enough to provide the tension).
If you can’t DIY it (which is still $1000K in parts, more of you do a lot of other preventive work while deep in the engine), you are looking at $2K+ to have a good independent mechanic do the work. Luckily since it’s a BMW engine, you can find a good BMW mech to do the work instead of a Land Rover mech. The 2004-2005 are already rock bottom priced even when running, so it’s basically worthless in the state it’s in now with broken guides.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hmmm, thanks! Yeah I figured with guide repair the truck is only worth about 2k or so "as-is" as they are only worth like 5k nowadays or so without issues...

I'd do the repair at a shop, but I just worry something else will come up next...or that repair maybe just would temporarily mask some other issue that caused it.

I found these parts on Ebay, but probably not recommended I would guess: ebay parts $150 4.4

thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #9
guy I bought truck from used Amsoil 10w40 and I used mobile 1 10w40.....full synthetic
 

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here’s a guy who is in the exact situation you are in if not worse.. he seems to be moving forward rather well perhaps you might want to exchange notes and figure out things as you both delve into it..reach out...
289068
 

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2011 Range Rover Supercharged
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Hmmm, thanks! Yeah I figured with guide repair the truck is only worth about 2k or so "as-is" as they are only worth like 5k nowadays or so without issues...

I'd do the repair at a shop, but I just worry something else will come up next...or that repair maybe just would temporarily mask some other issue that caused it.

I found these parts on Ebay, but probably not recommended I would guess: ebay parts $150 4.4

thanks
That $150 kit is far from complete. The parts you should/need to replace when doing the timing chain job extends far beyond the actual guides/chain/tensioner. I also would not use non-OEM parts for the guides. This isn’t a job you want to do again simply because you used inferior parts.
You will need a bunch of gaskets (water pump, timing covers, valve cover etc). Probably will need to replace a bunch a coolant hoses, maybe the water pump itself, o-rings for the coolant pipes that run under the valley pan. May wish to replace the valley pan gasket while you are doing the work ask. At which point you will want to reseal the intake manifold and throttle body. May be a good time to replace the coil boots too. The drive belts also.....
 

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That $150 kit is far from complete. The parts you should/need to replace when doing the timing chain job extends far beyond the actual guides/chain/tensioner. I also would not use non-OEM parts for the guides. This isn’t a job you want to do again simply because you used inferior parts.
You will need a bunch of gaskets (water pump, timing covers, valve cover etc). Probably will need to replace a bunch a coolant hoses, maybe the water pump itself, o-rings for the coolant pipes that run under the valley pan. May wish to replace the valley pan gasket while you are doing the work ask. At which point you will want to reseal the intake manifold and throttle body. May be a good time to replace the coil boots too. The drive belts also.....
AND he’ll need the timing tool kit (from german auto) and the TDC pin to line it all up otherwise the timing will be off from the get go plus the tools to loosen the Jesus bolt ....
 

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AND he’ll need the timing tool kit (from german auto) and the TDC pin to line it all up otherwise the timing will be off from the get go plus the tools to loosen the Jesus bolt ....
Yep. The Jesus bolt though. I think people are afraid to crank up the PSI on the impact wrench. I’ve got some impact wrenches that I think could bust it loose if you fed it 150psi air.
 

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Mine went around 180K as well, AMSOIL 0/40 every 5K from almost new (50k). Prior owner was Dealer oil changes every 5-7k. Inside of my engine was/is spotless. Pretty easy job. You will need the BMW crank tool for the crank pulley nut and a breaker bar, as well as cam alignment and crank pin from German Automotive as stated above. Make sure you use OEM BMW parts especially for the chains/guides and valve cover gaskets. I'd also powered coat the valve covers so the gasket channels are clean to seal properly. Do all the coolant/heater hoses. you can easily do this in two weekends going very slow and taking pictures. Do the oil separator and hose as well. you'll want to order any vacuum lines that break/crack, as they will.
 

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O.P.

how difficult was it to drop the pan ? Can you give a little info on what that process was like ?

looking at dropping my pan pretty soon. 2006 4.4L any advice would be greatly appreciated
 

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O.P.

how difficult was it to drop the pan ? Can you give a little info on what that process was like ?

looking at dropping my pan pretty soon. 2006 4.4L any advice would be greatly appreciated
About as easy as it gets. slide underneath, remove the rock/gravel guard, drain oil, remove the MANY bolts that hold the pan on. Gently pry it loose with a plastic scraper or other gentle tool (if needed).
 

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Those parts on Ebay should be fine. I always use non-OEM parts and have had zero problems. Most people who say otherwise have never actually done the job and tried them.

It is a long time since I did my 'BMW' but I just changed the guides which is really the only problem and much easier than doing the whole thing, I don't think you have to disturb the cam timing at all. You might want to change the hydraulic tensioner also though.

This all I had to buy:


Here is a photo that may help you see what is involved. Really not that bad to do. I have a set of tools I could sell you as I don't need them any more. There is actually quite a lot of room to work compared to the 5.0 which has to come out after the body is removed. Just did one of those too!

289143
 

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Those parts on Ebay should be fine. I always use non-OEM parts and have had zero problems. Most people who say otherwise have never actually done the job and tried them.

It is a long time since I did my 'BMW' but I just changed the guides which is really the only problem and much easier than doing the whole thing, I don't think you have to disturb the cam timing at all. You might want to change the hydraulic tensioner also though.

This all I had to buy:

eye roll
In for a penny, in for a pound, as the saying goes. You are more than welcome to use garbage quality parts however you see fit, but to say that anybody that suggests using OEM parts hasn’t got a clue?
Most people with common sense prefer to use parts of guaranteed quality when embarking on a labor intensive job (especially when somebody like the OP is likely going to pay a person to do the work). A good way to ensure quality parts is to stick with the OEM manufacturer. (Not a guarantee, but better odds than off-brand parts from China off eBay.)

Then you go on to imply that the OP can perform the entire M62 timing chain guide job with ONLY a 3-part kit. I’m questioning whether you have done the job before. Sure... You don’t need the replace the chain itself because it is often not worn out and typically within spec for chain ‘stretch’. You are telling me that when you did your guides, you didn’t replace a single gasket or hose? You didn’t replace the ‘cyclone’ oil separator? Reused the crank bolt?
Not sure what your goal was in “down playing” the scale of the job.
 

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eye roll
In for a penny, in for a pound, as the saying goes. You are more than welcome to use garbage quality parts however you see fit, but to say that anybody that suggests using OEM parts hasn’t got a clue?
Most people with common sense prefer to use parts of guaranteed quality when embarking on a labor intensive job (especially when somebody like the OP is likely going to pay a person to do the work). A good way to ensure quality parts is to stick with the OEM manufacturer. (Not a guarantee, but better odds than off-brand parts from China off eBay.)

Then you go on to imply that the OP can perform the entire M62 timing chain guide job with ONLY a 3-part kit. I’m questioning whether you have done the job before. Sure... You don’t need the replace the chain itself because it is often not worn out and typically within spec for chain ‘stretch’. You are telling me that when you did your guides, you didn’t replace a single gasket or hose? You didn’t replace the ‘cyclone’ oil separator? Reused the crank bolt?
Not sure what your goal was in “down playing” the scale of the job.

So you don't think BMW get parts made in China? Haha. Have you done the job? The only other part I fitted was the front crank oil seal. You are the type who would have someone spend $5K on a $3K car. Don't fix what ain't broke. And that was in 2017, my son is still driving the car 20K miles later. And I don't appreciate being called a liar, who do think you are? If the OP can take the sump off then he can do the rest.

Used Ebay timing chain parts in this one too.

289145
 

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2011 Range Rover Supercharged
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Liar maybe not... you are certainly the only person I know who would reuse valve cover gaskets, timing cover gaskets, and water pump gaskets on a 100k + mile vehicle. I still don’t see why on earth you would spend the time and effort of doing the TCG job on the M62 and then slap on old gaskets or slather RTV on all the mating surfaces and hope for the best.
I understand your philosophy of “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. The cost of repairs on an old fully depreciated vehicle requires careful financial assessment. I think for it to make any sense at all to own an old luxury car, you really should be doing ALL your own work. I do all the work on all my vehicles myself. I also have a day job and two young kids, so my time is valuable and when tackle a big job (like M62 guides) I generally make my best effort to not have to tear back into it 3-months later either because of an inferior quality part failure or because I reused an old part (well beyond it’s designed mileage life) buried deep in the engine.
I will say the M62 TCG job is something most mechanically savy people can tackle with a modest set of hand tools (speciality timing tools Obviously needed), patience and organization. It will take a full weekend, maybe two for the novice who takes their time and is careful. The M62 guide failure and subsequent repair is VERY VERY well documented all over the internet... covering every detail of the job. For this reason, the OP should strongly consider doing the work himself (assuming he has an adequate place to physically do the work.) The labor savings would allow him to spend proper money on replacing more than the bare minimum of parts.
The 5.0 job though, is not for the faint of heart. Even I do not look forward to that job on my 2011 S/C. I’ll do it myself when the time comes... but it’s not gonna be fun.
 
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