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Is it really that bad, rod knock in a 1995 4.2 LWB?

7K views 64 replies 6 participants last post by  LanceL 
#1 ·
After reading many forum posts wrt rebuilds and breakdowns, my favorite so far was from RoverMasterTech's writeup as follows: Main/Crank Bearing replacement write up - Land Rover Forums - Land Rover Enthusiast Forum
I believe that for me and my car, his insight and approach captures how I would like to approach my problem as follows. If anybody can please recommend and make pertinent suggestions Im all ears. Myself and the car are conditionally ready and willing to face the challenges that may come.

1995 RRC LWB:
~266,000 miles
Routine maintenance only after all this time...

Car is/was running "strong", no smoke, good gas mileage and handles fine, other than the tap, tap, tap and now the knock…

My local and knowledgeable LandRover "expert” mechanic team said I have rod knock in the bottom end. I hadn't really noticed because of the top end tap. Once he called it to my attention I do hear it.. (he said the exhaust manifold was leaking but I don't really notice it and that may be masking the knock somewhat.) They said catastrophe was eminent and the lead tech would NOT drive it further…that was after he put in the new Power steering pump and damper and test drove it for a spin.

He also said that the FRONT COVER was obsolete and that IF the oil pump had damaged the housing ( he was pretty sure it would be trashed) , then fixing anything was not an option, because even a block swap needed the old cover and those were impossible to find.

SO, I intend to pull the cover and inspect the PUMP and housing and keep a tight hold of the cover until I know it is not re-usable. ( Anyone hear of remanufacturing those? Why hasn't the part been resurrected ?)
IF cover is GOOD, then I will need gears to replace the pump , the timing chain kit, pickup tube o-ring, gaskets, etc … water pump is new but "TWO LONG bolts on driver side lower" threads stripped as I was torquing them in the cover for sure.
Also, before doing the pump/timing chain job, iff COVER is good I will inspect lower bearings and replace ( mains and pushrod) if the Crankshaft/Journals are not out of spec.
If crank appears trashed or bearings walked, then Ill pull the engine and have it rebuilt somewhere near Austin, TX or send it away or locate a rebuilt… ANY SUGGESTIONS on other local experts, options?

I Will need plastigage to inspect the crankshaft? (will that work on old beings or Do you need new to check??)

How does that sound?
Thanks in advance for your help.

Other plan is put it back together, and sell it as is to someone who wants the challenge. Minimal rust and never wrecked. Typical issues but nothing major.

P.S. If someone had said at 160K miles to rebuild the pump I would have for sure, but I never considered it and Bill never suggested it. I was happy to have an incredibly reliable automobile that never left me stranded and always started. I truly wonder about the horror stories I read on this site wrt money pit rovers. Mine never was and 266K miles later I know Ive spend more on gas than what I paid for it easily.
 
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#38 ·
Project update and advice

Update:
I may have mentioned that the front of the truck is up on ramps.
I got the heads off the block with an impact socket and a cheater bar. Not bad but not easy. They are a few days away from being pick up from a guy with lots of experience working on LR head components. I received the WedgeShop cam, lifters and new springs. I've cleaned all the parts nicely and am looking into getting a soda blaster or a media blaster to give the aluminum a good shinning up before reassembly. I took the injectors to a local diesel shop to be professionally cleaned on their ultrasonic machine. Looking forward to that outcome in the next couple days. Im waiting on the main bearing parts to come. Those are apparently in VERY short supply so say the majors of the LR parts world. Those should be here this week!

Advice here:
I finally removed the radiator. I took it to rebuilder guy locally and he said junk it. $700+ for a rebuild was the low quote. Picts of it here. Looking for a decent replacement now. Any opinions of that one?
Does the airconditioning condenser need to be removed in order to swap the camshaft? The new cam is 21.5". The clearance from the block to the condenser is 15"... my runway does not seem near long enough. Any good sugestions on how to proceed with that too? When MasterRoverTech said to NOT over oil the bearings upon reinstall, what does that mean exactly. The bolts I have out already are in GOOD shape and are going back in.

Next steps:

Next step is to remove the main bearing caps and move onto push rods.
The bolts on 1,2 and 5 dont budge...now to get the breaker bar out again and hope the wheel chock holds while I twist the bolts out of the engine.

286966
286967
 
#39 ·
#42 ·
Update: finally got around to taking the main caps off... tada! The replacement bearings are supposed to arrive yesterday. As soon as I get those back in, Ill pop the con-rod caps.... Picking up the reconditioned heads Tuesday next.

Motor is still in vehicle:
287102


Shells and caps:
287103
 
#44 ·
Also used was 3M Scoth 776 in older builds of these engines. As it's titled sealed the threads, but also stopped the steel bolts "galling" the aluminium threads whenever torqued. Plus original torque ratings where with this. Bolts cleaned, degreased and lightly coated just as about to assemble.

I always used it but nobody nowadays appears to bother.

The bolts never seized on disassembly with it, so it clearly worked, used it on all block bolts ( heads, inlet, waterpump etc)
 
#45 · (Edited)
RRLondon, thanks for the reply... I did find this searching.. . "3M™ Scotch-Weld™ Fuel Resistant Coating EC-776"
Is that what your meant.. cannot seem to find a similar to order. Very special stuff.... What about a substitute.. what exactly is that stuff doing.. Anti-seize and protect perhaps?
Im going to use permatex Anti-seize #80078. Says it works in high temp and jet aircraft applications which is good enough for me.
 
#46 · (Edited)
Well, I got a box of GENUINE (oh my g..) bearings from LR thru my trusted parts supplier. Turns out the box was tampered with as far as I can tell because there were only one type of bearing in the box.. just the upper with the groove and and not the smooth lower... Very disappointing after spending alot and waiting 3 weeks.
 
#47 ·
Hi anybody whose following... I got my '95 4.2L County LWB put back together and have started it up. Runs well.
I need to adjust the timing probably (currently at ~8 BTDC) and some other minor tweaks. The truck starts right up and idles simi-smoothly getting warmed up.

My check engine light is on, and the onBoard Diagnostic indicates a '12', which calls out the mass airflow sensor. I've checked it out and cleaned it with MAS cleaner but the light won't go out.

My refurbishing replaced the bearings in the bottom and added a new 111degree centerline CAM from the WedgeShop along with new timing chain and sprockets. Im wondering how much the timing should be retarted for this setup. The engine is running hot after about 10 minutes. I have installed a new ESR3687M radiator and thermostat, Bearmach viscous fan coupling. Waterpump was new right before the fix-ups. Any ideas about what could be the problem? I have a GloShift mechanical temperature gauge connected to the upper radiator hose. Temperature gets up to 220-225 with the AC running.. and a little less without it, going down the highway at 70mph. I stopped by Royal Overland shop in Hutto, TX to have a chat about what might be the issue. The truck should run at 195degrees so Im looking to find out what is causing my heat build up.

Thanks in advance for your excellent and informative insights. Kindest regards going forward!

 
#48 ·
You might have an air bubble in the cooling system. I know it seems obvious, but these things are a nightmare to bleed, there was another thread a few days ago where a guy was trying everything to lower temps, and in the end after replacing parts, tests, etc, it just turned out to be a **** air bubble trapped in there.
 
#53 ·
Unfortunately I don't have much good to say about viscous fans after my experience (fan exploded into a million plastic shards while driving, luckily didn't damage anything other than destroying the shroud and putting some dents in the radiator). I have dual electric fans on mine. When that hot it should be hard to push though, the clutch might be going out. 220's is a bit toasty, not catastrophic destruction toasty, but not long term great. My temp range tends to vary a lot, about 175-180 on a normal day with no AC, 185-195 on a hot day with AC, but the absolute worst case I've seen was about 205-210, and that was on the highway pulling a small camper trailer with the AC on full in 100 degree heat (on mostly level ground, a long hill might have made that worse), but that was asking a lot.

I still think you may have an air bubble, I know I sound like a broken record, but they are a PAIN to get out. I basically put mine on a coolant IV to get the air out, and it took 5 tries. It was immediately noticeable, because I was seeing close to 200-210 in normal around town driving after my radiator swap, and was infuriated about what it might be, and after two weeks of fiddling, it was a miserable f**king air bubble!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#54 ·
DId you use a stop-cock screwed into the radiator fill port OR a hotwater heater type purge valve... I can see using either but the stop cock drain I have doesnt let you connect a pipe.. the water heater overpressure thing would allow that.
I really like the electric fan setup, that would be nice too... after a couple thousand miles and Im sure the engine doesnt blow up cause of something I didnt do correctly I'm making this thing a tank! Thanks for the reposes!
 
#55 ·
So the previous time I filled it, I did a silly thing, I unbolted the metal heater pipes that run over the valve cover, tilted then up almost vertically, put a funnel in one, and slowly poured. I filled the heater core separately too. I've found that seems to be where air collects, since they're a local high point in the system from both sides. Took forever and made a mess, but I had no air pockets!

The most recent time I installed a bleed port in one of the heater lines (since mine never had one) and it was a good deal easier. Still took a few days of "run for a bit, let it cool, check level, repeat."
 
#56 ·
Greate info. The problem may have worked itself out....Ive been driving around a bit and it seems better. I think I need to calibrate me temp sensor for accuracy now. I wish I'd installed the electric fans now too.... next go around.
 
#57 ·
If you do decide on electric fans I recommend this set from Flex-a-lite, they legitimately fit so perfectly on the core you'd think they were made for it. They sit right on that lower lip of the radiator, tuck snugly under the top lip, and cover the whole width.

288896
 
#58 ·
NICE! Your practical experience is very informative. I was looking at that line and wondering what had the double setup that would fit nicely... And I read that removing the viscous fan increase the HP a percent or two or at least a little less drag on the engine ... I saved a lot of money doing the engine overhaul myself so these little things now are not so hard to afford. Wished Id gone with the aluminum radiator but need the original trans and oil cooler ports. Didnt want to workaround that issue. I think the radiator is OK but its not 4 core I believe like the original, even tho it was sold as OEM relacement. No AC in that vehicle?
 
#59 ·
AC is there and working, I had to replace the AC idler pulley (squealed like a banshee) so the belt was off at the time. Removing the viscous fan does give you back a couple HP, and while it takes power to run the electric fans, it's more efficient. Also since the fans only run when needed, you're not wasting power spinning a fan all the time.
 
#60 ·
Do you think pulling air across the radiator as opposed to pushing it if you're standing still is efficient or have you tried that?

BTW, does that year models have the dual AC condenser fans mounted on the other side of the radiator?
 
#61 ·
It's always better to pull air through rather than push it, as that leaves the front face of the radiator less obstructed (no fans in the way). In our case since there is the AC condenser and fans up there already it doesn't make too much of a difference.

I replaced the two factory electric condenser fans with a pair of SPAL 11" 1000cfm fans and wired them into a controller that operates them both as cooling fans (for even more airflow) and as AC fans (AC control override). They were the most powerful low profile (it's a tight fit) fans I could find.

 
#62 ·
It's always better to pull air through rather than push it, as that leaves the front face of the radiator less obstructed (no fans in the way). In our case since there is the AC condenser and fans up there already it doesn't make too much of a difference.

I replaced the two factory electric condenser fans with a pair of SPAL 11" 1000cfm fans and wired them into a controller that operates them both as cooling fans (for even more airflow) and as AC fans (AC control override). They were the most powerful low profile (it's a tight fit) fans I could find.

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So, Ive driven almost a year now after the rebuild. After August last year when all was done, at the tail of summer, into fall and winter last, and early spring, I've driven several hundred miles. Car runs with normal temperatures when the outside temp is below 90 degrees. Now that it is hotter, eg 95 or higher, the car still shows the temp getting into the 200's, up to 210 at a standstill for a few minutes waiting in traffic. The interior cluster gauge shows no movement really. I have a separate Glowsift gauge on the return hose from the engine to the radiator. I got a Calsonic replacement radiator ESR3687M from Atlantic British. Its all metal. This is the second one from them I have as the first had an issue with the lower connector tube bent too far inwards and kinking the hose to the water pump. Also, the transmission cooler connectors were misaligned and cause the metal tubes running past the shock tower to rub. AB send a replacement and that one was much better fit overall.

The sales person at G&M radiator had this to say: The OE core is 53mm deep but has 4 rows of coolant tubes which are very small by todays standards. The core in your replacement has 3 rows of tubes which have a larger internal diameter – core depth being 45mm thick. However, these modern cores are more than up to the job so you should have no issue with cooling. Just hope the hose being kinked is not affecting coolant flow.

I'm really questioning the ability of the radiator to work like the OE core. Of course I still have the old one and it leaked a tiny bit but putting it back is not a good idea because it surely had blockage in the tubes after all this time.

Im thinking to try the fan setup that LanceL has and see how that goes, although Im not happy with the radiator problem. QUESTION: Did anybody else use the replacement radiator ESR3687M from Atlantic British and NOT experience an overheating issue, in their 4.2L? I may need to post this issue to a new thread.

Thanks in advance for anybody still watching. Best regards to all the enthusiast that love there RRC.
 
#63 ·
Ohhhh did I ever have issues with my AB radiator, see the thread I made (and the eventual solution) below:

 
#64 ·
Ohhhh did I ever have issues with my AB radiator, see the thread I made (and the eventual solution) below:

I do remember your post. I’ve come to the conclusion that the engine is probably running normal temperature. In the cooler months I never see a temp issue, eg over 200. It’s in the hotter months when ambient temperature is above 95 And climbing. I never see the in dash gauge move much anyway. It’s the analog gauge I’ve installed on the rerun which shows temps creeping into the 210 range when sitting at idle for a few minutes and outside temps are scorching. I think the car wasn’t really designed for Texas hot. I think the electric fan setup you have would make a huge difference too And one day I’ll get to that. Thanks for your input, as always it’s nice to hear the experiences of others that really appreciate these machines.
 
#65 ·
I think that's pretty fair to say, I mean most british cars weren't designed for serious heat (my old MG definitely runs a bit hot on a warm SoCal day). I'm sure that's especially true in Texas, figure it's a lot harder to cool an engine when your cooling air is 110 degrees, rather than 70! Electric fans that can run full blast at idle definitely do help when sitting at lights or in traffic.
 
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