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Discussion Starter #41
Ok. So its been 6days and no LC6 yet, so I called the people and
they said their inventory was wrong. So they said they would send
me the LC8 at no charge. I said ok, that's fine.
However, I had planned on just canceling the order with them because
I had just purchased another LC6 from another place and cheaper.
So now I have an LC8 and an LC6 on the way, plus the amp with
speaker inputs. This should be fun.
If anyone is interested I may have SOME type of line converter for sale
shortly :)
 

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Discussion Starter #42
just a side note:
I was looking at the JL audio cleansweep recently as an option.
I called JL audio yesterday and spoke with technical support. I
explained what I was doing and was told that the cleansweep
would not be the best option for just adding a subwoofer, and
that I would be better off with a line converter or amplifier with
speaker inputs. So this was reassuring.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Just another update. My premiere amplifier came in last night.
This amp and sub are so pretty I hate to hide them. I pulled
up the floor piece behind the back seats last night, super easy;
and there is a lot of space there, the amp and audiocontrol (if I use it)
will fit there perfectly. Oh and they sent me a free pair of tweeters
with the amp, nice of them. I wish I could find the nav-tv opv-1r
somewhere for a reasonable price, this is the only thing I still
need. I guess I'll just go ahead and try out my modified cable, at
least I would have video in park.
 

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okay, so my system is up and running without any major issues at all. it only took the car audio store a few hours to get everything installed and it looks great (great being that everything is concealed) and sounds considerably better. however, i am not not completely satisfied as i am only able to push the sub to about 50% of the power before it becomes too overbearing for the "tailgate enclosure"! if i increase the power of the amp any more than half-way it almost sounds distorted?! i played around with the frequency and gains for about 45 mins and really wasn't able to match a combination that completely satisfied me.
i cited dynamat to two different audio stores to counteract the rattling but got the "wince & eghh" face before being told that it would not make that much of a difference given the setup of the tailgate.

...for comparison i put a 12" p2 that i had sitting in the house and hooked it up in the trunk and it sounds brilliant. it definitely sounds better than any other option i have exhausted thus far; however, it obviously defeats the purpose of trying to eliminate the use of a box in the trunk. *i will note that with the box in the back i have absolute minimal rattling from the tailgate & window or anything else for that matter, which is not the case when i power up the pioneer shallow-sub.

i am pleased however that i do have the option of switching between subs (tailgate or box) very easily and within minutes, should i fancy the need for solid or rear-view distorting bass! i just have to take the speaker wires from either sub and clip them into the amp almost effortlessly.

ha, well this all sounds very defeating (probably cuz i got a little too excited and considered the tw-sw2541d as the second coming!) but i will stress that the sub is in fact a significant improvement and given the price i paid, would consider it a sound investment. *no pun intended

so once again, great find ryanoz, it definitely adds a lot more range and is a helluva lot more responsive when adjusting the volume. i guess take my experience with a grain of salt and wait for ryan's outcome as it is obvious he is more than able to combat the issues i have encountered and will probably find a solution for all.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
Mason,
great info. Thanks.
well, its good to know that everything went smooth and the sub fit.
I knew it wouldn't sound knockout great. The problem is the trim
piece, it covers the speaker and rattles. I am taking my time with
this to make sure I do it the best possible way. I'm going to test
a lot of configurations. To satisfy curiousity, I will see how it
sounds with the factory amp. I have three options... using the line
converters (both LC8 and LC6) and using my amps speaker inputs.
I'll see how it sounds with the trim off, which I imagine it will sound
as good as possible; the tailgate enclosure is only slightly more
airspace than ideal. Then I'll see how it sounds with the trim piece
on, see what differences it makes and how to eliminate them... be
it securing any rattles or adding some more foam around the sub to
seal it off better, to maybe cutting a circle out of the trim and adding
a speaker grill in front of the sub. If it just doesn't sound good in
the tailgate, then I may consider one of the pioneer enclosures that
fit under the seat. Or fitting a molded fiberglass enclosure.

Mason- does the tailgate just rattle way too much? Does the whole thing
rattle or is it just the trim? Do you think you could eliminate the rattles?
80% of the time it is the license plate doing most the rattling, and a
little strip of foam solves that.

Thanks again.
 

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Hey Mason and Ryan. There may not be enough airspace in there to properly allow the sub to sound great. Heres a couple of ideas. Try putting dynomat or something similarover the sub whole and cut out about 1in in diameter smaller than the whole. Then fold it inward. Also you can try putting a 1sq foot of fiberglass into the space which allows the airspace to appear bigger to sub. If you hear rattles back there then you need to dynomat that panel. I can almost guarantee that it will sound better. Vibrations will cause the sound quality to be reduced because you will hear vibrations in between the sound waves creating more of a muffled sound.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
jbrac25 said:
There may not be enough airspace in there to properly allow the sub to sound great.
There is more airspace than is needed, if anything it may need to be
reduced. The airspace required is .7cubic ft. and the tailgate is roughly
1.2cubic ft. or so. Its just that the trim piece is blocking the sound, when
you put the trim on its creating something similar to a bandpass enclosure
in which case you would port the trim piece (not a good idea in my opinion).
I think you can seal off the space between the sub and the trim (it already
has foam installed on the trim (you can see in the picture) by adding a little
more foam, it may be enough to get better sound. And of course securing
rattles best as possible.
 

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Ok your right then ryan, another way could be to dynamat the inside thereby reducing the airspace. I know theres some other stuff that does it but i cant think of it right now.
 

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okay, so i've messed around a little more and i think a major problem is the amount of air leaks?! i've only just had the chance tonight to mess around with it while in the garage and by simply running my hand across the trim i have found a few significant leaks. the main ones being on the bottom corners at both ends of the tailgate with one other where the latch is...but i don't envision a remedy for that one!

i may be daring enough to attempt to take off the trim myself to see if i can find a better solution but i'm beginning to believe that the under-the-seat option may be the best bet. once again, there is a significant improvement with the pioneer sub in the tailgate but it is frustrating cuz i know it can handle so much more than what i am currently pushing it to right now.

i do however think that if you find a viable and efficient way to tighten up the trim you can kill two birds with one stone. however, i am just not so technically inclined! for the most part there is almost always a way to solve the rattling, but the "distorted" sound that i am getting when i crank up the power may just be the mismatch b/w sub and enclosure. the license plate is not really an issue, some chewing gum can knock that problem right out!

...but if the ud-sw10u fits under the seats right now (ryan is that the enclosure you were looking at or were you thinking custom?) it may
save a lot of time and frustration in the long run. especially for people like me who wouldn't know where or how to start with anything custom without racking up the $$$.

either way, i'll be checking up on your progress as i'm relying on you guys to make my life easier! 8)
 

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Discussion Starter #51
MasonSensation said:
okay, so i've messed around a little more and i think a major problem is the amount of air leaks?! i've only just had the chance tonight to mess around with it while in the garage and by simply running my hand across the trim i have found a few significant leaks. the main ones being on the bottom corners at both ends of the tailgate with one other where the latch is...but i don't envision a remedy for that one!
Yea, makes sense. If you look at my first post, the first picture, you can
see the factory foam they have on the trim. Maybe by adding more or
something else, you can seal it off enough.
Mason- my factory subwoofer doesn't really sound all that bad, just not
as powerful as I like. The factory sub doesn't really rattle things too bad
and I haven't heard any distortion. This is how I set my radio:
Everything sounds best in Logic7, with Logic7 off it sounds like crap.
From the center...
Bass: 4 or 5 clicks right
Treble: 7 clicks right
Fade: 2 clicks left
Subwoofer: 2 clicks right
If your hearing distortion, definitely don't let it play long like that.
It could have a lot to do with the factory radio EQ settings too though,
which is what the cleansweep takes care of; but only if you run all
the speakers thru it. Also, make sure your amp is set correctly... the
cut off frequency, bass boost, and gains. I'm sure they set it all
correctly for you. The factory subwoofer has 2 sets of speaker wires, 4 wires total). The pioneer only has 2 wires. Again, I'm sure they wired this correctly too. It could
just be that the tailgate enclosure it too big, so I may add some kind
of thick foam in the center to cut the airspace in half.
i may be daring enough to attempt to take off the trim myself to see if i can find a better solution but i'm beginning to believe that the under-the-seat option may be the best bet. once again, there is a significant improvement with the pioneer sub in the tailgate but it is frustrating cuz i know it can handle so much more than what i am currently pushing it to right now.
Its always sort of a gamble on how it will sound, especially trying to
integrate with the OEM setup. It could just be a matter of getting the
setting set correctly, stoping a few rattles, or sealing things off. In any
case, if it just doesn't sound good at least nothing has been altered and
there are always alternatives.
...but if the ud-sw10u fits under the seats right now (ryan is that the enclosure you were looking at or were you thinking custom?) it may
save a lot of time and frustration in the long run. especially for people like me who wouldn't know where or how to start with anything custom without racking up the $$$.
yea, that's the one I was thinking of.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v ... 26,00.html
Not sure if it fits, haven't checked the deminsions. Could be an option.

Mason- did they install an audiocontrol line converter? Where did they
install the amp and line converter? Photos? :D

-------EDIT--------
lining the tailgate enclosure with this stuff would probably make a big
difference, problem would be putting it in there... all you have is the
sub cutout to work thru, could still cover a good amount of surface area.
I will probably use this stuff around the outside of the sub also to seal it off
from the trim best I can.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-TlizL5pNoF ... morephotos[/b]
 

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i am going to dig into the amp tomorrow and test out a few more configurations as far as trying to balance the gain and frequency controls. i have it at a suitable level right now that provides more bump than the factory and with a more resonant tone but i don't want to put anyone under the impression that it will set off any car alarms!

having listened to it again though i am satisfied with the 'bump' factor and would say it def adds to a system that is not that bad too begin with. in all fairness i never wanted booming bass, but now that i've set it up, i want to be able to exercise the option! i will probably look into checking out about reducing the airspace when i get the chance...sounds like an interesting option.

as for placement, exactly as you said...the floor piece behind the back seats has a ton of space and is exactly where they put my amp. very accessible and has made it a breeze for me to go back and forth between subs. funnily enough, i know they used a line out converter but i have no clue where they placed it. i don't think they put it under any seat, but i think they may have placed it under the passenger side flooring right under the glovebox. i'll call tomorrow and find out for sure, and i'll also be able to take some pics tomorrow afternoon and post them.

macattack...check out the link in ryan's post to the under-seat enclosure. i don't have the dimensions for it yet either (too lazy to sign-up) but i'll grab a look at it tomorrow and see whether or not it could fit...ha, maybe even two!
 

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by the way, it was a peripheral line out converter that was on my invoice. i hope that hasn't been my problem all along?! i see there are plenty that can handle the 50w

also, i saved the pdf file for the dimensions of the ud-sw10u if anyone wants it. you can e-mail me at [email protected]. or you can just download it off the pioneer website, it's not a pain to register
 

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Discussion Starter #54
No, if they used that line converter then I'm sure its fine; they
know more about it than me.
I'm seriously doubting the pioneer box will fit under the seats as they
have those bars under them, it may though.
-------EDIT---------
I'm positive the distortion your hearing is because there is too much airspace
for the sub. A perfect size enclosure could be 1.5ft x 1ft x .4in. , the tailgate
is much larger than this. So i've ordered some original dynamat and some
1/2in. dynamat insulation which I will put in the tailgate enclosure. This
should decrease the airspace and add noise dampening. [/b]
 

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Discussion Starter #55
ok, the hard part is over. jeeeezuuzzz! It took 2 hours to run the amp
power wire thru the firewall! Had to remove the battery, unscrew the
fuse box, and made MANY MANY attempts to get my steel fish cable
thru the wiring harness and into the glovebox area. I was very close
to just drilling a whole in the firewall, but on my last attempt I got it
thru. I'll be out of town for the weekend, still don't have the audiocontrol's
in; should be here monday. Not sure when the dynamat will be in, but
once its all here, I'll get busy.
 

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That dynamat dynaliner is pretty much the same thing they carry at REI for people to put under their sleeping bags when you go camping. You can buy a 10 ft roll of it at REI for cheap. Called close cell pad. http://www.rei.com/online/store/Product ... AMPING_TOC
Very easy to put in. I used it on top of my dynamat when i did this on my old tahoe. Much cheaper than dynamat for the same purpose, plus you can sleep on it lol.
Heres another dynamat product you can put right behind the speaker which will help by reducing vibrations and distortion that effect the sound quality. http://www.dynamat.com/products_car_audio_dynaxorb.html
Sounds like you guys are on the right track, just gonna take lots of work to make something sound good in that stock location without modifications.
 

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sorry it took so long, but i finally gots some snaps of the setup...



...with the panel behind the rear seats off...





...as you can see, with the panel back on it completely covers the amp. right now i have the box in so i just pulled out a little slack wiring to connect into the sub...





a little off topic here but are there any good products out there to clean the rubber cargo mat?! it looked really smart when i had first put it in but now it looks like hell! it serves its purpose well but i would like it to look a little sharper when i don't have the need to haul anything around.

 

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Discussion Starter #58
MasonSensation said:
sorry it took so long, but i finally gots some snaps of the setup...
a little off topic here but are there any good products out there to clean the rubber cargo mat?! it looked really smart when i had first put it in but now it looks like hell! it serves its purpose well but i would like it to look a little sharper when i don't have the need to haul anything around.
Thanks for the photos Mason. Boy you sure jumped on this idea pretty
quick :) Hopefully I'll be of some help on solving the sound quality issues.
The audiocontrols came in today (LC8 and LC6i), I'll probably end up using
the LC6 as its really all I need, plus it matches the charcoal amp, the LC8
is white. Anyway, the dynomat should be in either tomorrow or Wed. Then
I'll start the install. I'm pretty obsessive and thorough, so it may take me
a couple days :)
Oh and about the rubber cleaner... this stuff works great:
http://www.trimshine.com/
you can buy it at PepBoys
 

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You guys should try the expanding foam sealer they sell at Home Depot. I can't think of what it's called, but it comes in a hairspray sized can and just squirts out like whipped cream. Then it expands and hardens. That would seal it, take up some space, and stop some rattles since it sticks everything together. And it would only take 30 seconds and $5.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
Drevs said:
You guys should try the expanding foam sealer ...
yea I thought about that. I was going to check for any airleaks in the tailgate
once the sub is doing its thing. If there are any, I think the foam sealer spray
would work good at filling those up. The problem is going to be actually
reaching behind and to the other side.
 
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