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LEGACY VENDOR
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

This is more an informative post, rather than one asking for help per-se...

I've been working on getting a stereo system to work in my 2001 Vogue, as when I bought it the DSP amp was missing...

After a lot of searching on the web, and hours in the ETM trying to collate all the information, and find out missing bits, what everything connects to etc - and with a bit of searching on a couple of BMW forums for pinouts in their vehicles that use the same sort of system (sadly not an identical amp though :( ) I've managed to find out what everything does, including polarities for the speaker connections, head unit connections etc (which the ETM doesn't have)

So, as it was a wet, horrible day here in England, and with tyring to sort through to find come cable colours to wire in my crossover circuits I've built, I figured I'd put it all in one spreadsheet..

And after a few hours work, looking in the ETM again, and collating my pages of notes, I have attached the PDF file to this post.

I know there were a couple of threads where people were asking what connector did what, where it went, how it was wired etc - so instead of posting this in numerous threads, I figured it was easier to start this.

Anyway, I hope this is useful, or informative to some... If you find any errors or omissions, then don't hesitate to let me know, and I'll amend the document - I've tried to get complete accuracy, but there were a couple of bits in the ETM where there was no information (CD changer was a bit sketchy) so have tried as best as I can to search the web for correct info..

Please note also... this is ONLY for the models with the single DSP amplifier in the boot (1999MY On), NOT earlier models with the individual door amps (up to 1999MY).

Let me know if it's any use!

Cheers,
Marty

View attachment P38 Premium Stereo Wiring.pdf
 

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Great stuff:thumb:
thanks for all your hard work!
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
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Discussion Starter #4
No worries :)

I'm looking at getting an oscilloscope at some point, to measure the output voltages of the audio signal from the factory Nav system, so I can try and amplify it to work with either an aftermarket head unit, or standalone speaker... I've done some long web searches, and haven't managed to find anything regarding the output level... also considering putting in a 7" tablet or one of the el-cheapo win CE 7" nav systems available on Ebay - as a replacement for the factory system. Then I'd still have the issue of routing the nav audio to the speakers - but I think I'd investigate whether a telemute lead would work...

The possibilities are almost endless... it's more the implementation which is a pain, largely due to lack of technical info..

Ideas/Thoughts welcome - but whatever I end up doing - I'll post up any other technical info I find that may be useful to others!

Cheers,
Marty
 

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great info Marty, i lost the other thread but did find out why the speaker didn't work with the amp? could you give it another preamp source so the telemute is out of the loop? defo get an oscilloscope if you can, my clarion sadly demised long before i had the chance to get a signal from it.
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
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Discussion Starter #6
Hey Larry!

Don't have any form of telemute at the moment in the vehicle, was just another theory of making things work!

I've tried a 12W amplifier with a speaker, directly on the output on of the factory Nav system, and get nothing out of it... I do get some form of noise/interference when the amp is turned up, and I get varying levels of noise if you try to adjust the volume from the factory nav screen - but no audio tones etc. I know that the Nav mute line goes to ground when the Sat Nav tries to make a noise - I can measure that on multi-meter. I just need to figure out whether the nav output is such a low level, that it needs a pre-amp on it aswell before the main amplifier...

I have a pre-amp (that I tried on the subwoofer, and it was too much) so might try hooking that up to the factory nav and then the amp and see what happens...

I know the amplifier circuit that I made works, as I bench tested it with my mp3 player, to make sure that all the connections were correct etc...

I'll figure it all out one day!

Marty
 

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i was thinking the mp3 as the [preamp] source into your amp and onto the speaker your choosing, leaving the nav unit (and any telemute) out of it. there is a test with a AA battery primarily to check the phase, but it's as good to see the cone working or the wiring is good. I may have misunderstood where your talking about speaker's in the car or via bench testing, apologies if thats the case.
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
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Discussion Starter #8
Hi Larry,

No worries... My setup is a little different to your understanding - probably because my explanation was more of how the thoughts came out of my head!

The setup was an amplifier module I bought (a Kemo Electronics 12W universal one) with an input from my mp3 player as a source (on the workbench for testing) and an 8ohm speaker that I found under the drivers side trim, from a Nokia car kit, connected to the amplifier output.

I then transferred the circuit to the car, and connected the Nav system to the input (instead of mp3 player) and tried to see if I got any audio output. Nada... nothing.. zip.. I got some noises, and they changed when I adjusted the volume, but not the spoken words like the nav system is supposed to have.

As an update from this afternoon... I pulled the Nav Computer from the car, put it on the workbench and pulled it to bits. I figured I'd try and trace the audio output pins back to whatever drove them, and then see if I could find any info from there.

With a bit of blind luck (tracing the pins was a complete bugger as the board is multi-layered - with probably at least 1, maybe 2 internal tracks sandwiched) I found a chip that seemed to link to the pins, and did a google search for the chip.

It's a Philips DA7052A chip, which after some searching showed up as a mono amplifier chip. I managed to track a datasheet down, and it's a 1W amp, designed for either an 8 or 16ohm speaker....

Could it be that simple?? simply wire an 8ohm speaker to the nav output pins??... I put the unit back together, installed in the RR, and connected the speaker I had from the hands-free kit to the nav audio pins in the boot with a bit of choc block, and key in ignition stage I - nav unit powers up.. go into the menu settings, and change the volume... "softer, softer, louder, louder, louder" as I turned the rotary dial...

So.. the next step (when it's not raining again) is to connect the nav system wires to one of the sets of spare lines I ran when the carpet was up, and will re-mount the speaker under the drivers trim, and I should have Nav with audio !!! independant of the stereo, so it'll talk to me over the music. My head unit does have a mute line in, so if I find it is too hard to hear, then I'll connect the Nav Mute to the head unit, then it'll mute the stereo when the sat nav talks.

So for anyone else out there who's upgrades the head unit, and had factory nav... all you need is an 8ohm speaker...

Now... just to boost the line level signal to the subwoofer input, so the sub is proportionate to the rest of the system...

Cheers,
Marty
 

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Wow... thanks for the info! This will come helpful when I decide to upgrade (so far I have been reluctant to mess with it!). :oops:
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
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Discussion Starter #11
Updated version of the pdf file attached...

Has updated info on the CD changer wiring.

If anyone has tried and tested data on the CD changer to verify the pinouts, then let me know, as I don't have the factory CD changer or head unit....

Cheers all,

Marty

View attachment P38 Premium Stereo Wiring.pdf
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
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Discussion Starter #13
Hi Larry,

Yes, I do have the wiring harness still there, and from memory the wiring does match - but will double check tomorrow if i get the chance..

I'm in the middle of installing a 7" Tablet in where my factory nav screen is... so have the dash apart/ radio cables accessible...

It was more a request for the actual cable functions, since the info I got from wkipedia regarding the pinouts appears to be backwards, and the wiring colours probably differ in different vehicles, even though the pin configs are probably the same!

Maybe asking if anyone had tested the pin functions would have been better!

I'll do a write up with pics when I've got the navigation tablet installed, for those who are interested in a relatively low cost after market option...

Marty
 

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The Nav unit in mine was the original Carin etc etc. but instead of bewing "built in", the display had been installed on a bracket in front of the cubby space below the central heater vents... It shook a lot at 100kmh!! In the end I removed the whole thing. Then I discovered that it had also been linked to a reversing sensor on the passenger side...but had never operated as best I know. Your diagram however has resolved a lingering "what if"... The reason for removing the complete works was that the price being demanded here for an updated map CD to drive the Nav however was double that for a complete navigator with updated maps and superior sat tracking!!!
cheers
 
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Thanks for the updated info, Marty, great spreadsheet approach, more useful than some RAVE.... [Maybe send it to LR for info too - for a suitable fee ?!]

Larry; No need for metering out the loom thanks to that diagram I posted on the other recent related (iPod) thread from Chris64 ?! (As below, again..)

Hoges, was the purpose of that reversing facility to inhibit the ICE sound ? [Yes, 'inbuilt' Nav seems to be 3-5 times more expensive than 'aftermarket'... must be the cost of all those plastic mouldings ??!]
 

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never seen anyone claim they've confirmed the diagram independently [either correctly or showing there's an error] so where has the information for the pin outs come from? That's a rhetorical question because it can only come from RAVE, which of course rendered the whole amended diagram's/talk of 'metering' redundant [for me anyway] which was my point to Marty if the looms match then the pin outs probably are as disco II/RAVE.
 
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Then here is a rhetorical answer, Larry: Who cares where it came from as long as it is now (finally) correct ??

[In fact.... as though it matters... it is from several sources, athough I did not actually realise only 'independently verified' data was allowed here !! Overall it is usually best to provide constructive criticisms rather than simply decry others' postings ?]

Also unimportant is that RAVE is wrong about this, giving a wire colour as Orange when it is actually Black - So perhaps LR just forgot to have it 'independently verifed' ?! (& also to add the actual signal designations... ?):-
 

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LEGACY VENDOR
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Discussion Starter #18
Right... I have been out to the RR and double checked...

The wire colours are the same as my information. There is NO orange wire in the loom at the head unit end, it is black.

I am a bit frustrated this all of this is causing so much aggravation... I meant for this to be some helpful info for other owners to help demystify what everything actually does on the later models. Yes, you can "Go and look in RAVE" but that's about as much use as a chocolate teapot if you don't know what you're looking for. Yes, it shows what pin 'X' and 'Y' wires go to on what connector, and what the wire colour is SUPPOSED to be - but it doesn't actually list the functions of each wire.

Whilst it is possible to work out fairly easily for some things -speaker wiring etc - (though RAVE doesn't state that in the front doors, BOTH sets of wiring ends up being the same colour for LH/RH front doors...), Some wiring functions aren't quite so clear, and are not mentioned in the written blurbs about the circuit operations.

The searching I did for the CD-Changer wiring led to not a lot of useful info. I used the information from RAVE as far as what each connector pin goes to what, and wire colouring - but in my spreadsheet, I wanted to actually put in what each wire DID... and as I don't have the factory stereo, or CD changer anymore - I can't get a meter or a scope out and go "C1354, pin 20, purple wire IS definitely +12V" or "C1354, pin 13, red wire, IS definitely Audio R +ve"

Which is why I've asked that if anyone actually has tested this before.

I've tried to collate information from the 'net, and as previously stated in the other thread on CD stacker/Ipod wiring, that the original Wikipedia data shows the pin functions for the CD changer mini ISO connector of:

Pin 13: Data in (bus)
Pin 14: Data out
Pin 15: +12V permanent
Pin 16: +12v switched
Pin 17: Data Ground
Pin 18: Audio Ground
Pin 19: Audio Left
Pin 20: Audio Right


Other forums I have looked on have shown that there are some discrepancies there, and the pin functions are actually:

Pin 13: Audio Left +ve
Pin 14: Audio Right +ve
Pin 15: Ground
Pin 16: Audio Left -ve
Pin 17: Audio Right -ve
Pin 19: Data Bus
Pin 20: Constant 12V


As you can see, there is quite a difference in what the original information I found said and what other sources have shown... my reason for asking if someone has previously tested this is to double check that the information I am trying to collate is now actually correct. I believe it is, and if I could test it fully myself, then I would. Neither the P38 or Disco II RAVE states what each wire is used for - merely just the pin numbers and supposed wire colours.

I was originally not going to even include the CD-stacker info as I didn't need it, and I wasn't sure I could be bothered looking it all up and trying to decipher it, as it wasn't something I was ever going to use... And if I'd known it would cause this much controversy, then I possibly wouldn't have bothered!

I now believe that all of the data in the pdf file is correct. HOWEVER, if someone finds that there is an error or omission, then please let me know, and I will amend/update it as required. I claim no responsibility if you blow your stereo/car/house/city up by using the information I have provided, but it is correct and appears to be working fine on my 2001 Vogue.

Good day to all,
Marty
 

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well, no need to get frustrated. The info is there however (discoII/RAVE)
1a.jpg
from my point of view the wiki info has been the red herring here, the I bus is a 1 wire serial comm's so that doesn't make sense when wiki then showed 3 serial's. whilst it maybe true that you can't scope or meter the wires given in your example to comfirm they are those wire's, you also can't say they aren't the wires as described either and you have to start/trust something. On the other thread the OP pretty much had the wires and descriptions pretty much correct, just the info in the I bus was missing.
 
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As you can tell Marty as useful as it can be I don't have a lot of faith in RAVE/ETM at times either, probably because I have seen much more useful & accurate data from other manufacturers.. and which is a great pity because so many P38 problems are electrical/electronic.

When using RAVE diagrams there may be anomalies/errors at times, and I wonder 'did LR not have some kind of feedback process for correcting and/or clarifying these' ?? (Also rhetorical...)

Unfortunately just one such error can lead us (all) to think 'What the **** ?' and/or guesswork -'is this the right diagram ?'- and so on.... but thanks to this Forum and folks with such a methodological and detailed approach as your own we can ultimately defeat this !!

For example the orange/black wire issue arose from Chis64, the other OP who noted it (by examination) in his thread below:

http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/7-range-rover-mark-ii-p38/40293-2001-p38-cd-changer-tape-deck-interface-ipod.html

Again what matters most is that we all arrived at the correct info, and in spite of RAVE's vagueness ??....


[Sorry, Larry, I still don't know/accept why when working on a P38 I would then have to refer/compare to another RAVE ETM , although actually for the Disco in order to find the written 'blurb' above (albeit with those different connector numbers..) when someone at LR could simply have added this info to the P38 RAVE ETM in about 10 minutes (and also hopefully correctly..) !?]
 
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