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Discussion Starter #1
You may have seen my other post recently detailing my starting woes (Difficult starting) , plus a secondary issue that has occurred during this process - weird noise. However, with the engine refusing to fire, I cannot diagnose that point yet. I have done the following ignition tests:

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A further development today is that I also realise I have no fuel getting to the plugs - I have a switch that disables the pump at the tank end that has been off whilst I have been diagnosing - I turned on today just to check. No spark, no fuel, but the engine is turning over easily and freely. Bearing in mind the tests above, does anyone have any suggestions what could be going wrong? I also noticed that, just occasionally, and not today, when I turn the ignition to position 1, the rev counter rises a little... ?

Thanks in advance from a desperate Range Rover lover... If anyone in the Essex area wants an afternoon out, I'd gladly pay!! Difficult to find people with expertise...
 

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Sorry didn't see you had started a new thread on this, just copying my response form the other one:

"The dry plugs are an interesting development. Although messy, can you disconnect the fuel line at the rail to make sure fuel is making it there? Unless I'm missing some other issue (that may have been covered in previous posts) no fuel when cranking (assuming fuel in the rail) means the EFI computer is not sending signals to the injectors, which is a very different problem from no spark. Unlessssssssss perhaps the EFI comupter isn't getting power/woken up when the ignition turns on? Which may be the ignition switch? Super spitballing here, this is a weird one...."
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for your reply, LanceL. I started a new thread as I though it would help folks pinpoint the problem more after all the messing about before! I'm a reasonably confident DIY mechanic and can do most jobs, but this one is past my understanding hence the desperation for some help! I spoke to some professional mechanics but the expertise simply isn't around anymore - if it can't be plugged in, they often don't know what they are doing. I'm not knocking that as things have moved on and they are of course very skilled in other ways.

Very happy to pop the rail off if you can tell me at which point to do so?... It's slightly reassuring that it doesn't seem obvious to you as I am also thinking it's odd. I've done the manual tests over and over again and they generally check out fine, other than the obvious no spark!
 

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have a look at this site it’s for SD1 but the info on it is all relevant to range rovers, very interesting reading and lots of information
 

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Is the fuel pump running?
just looking at your test chart no6 I have not checked mine but reading the manual it says with ignition switched off connect voltmeter between battery positive and ignition coil negative zero volts should be registered you’re reading 12.5 volts?
it says this is a fault in the amplifier I’m 🤔thinking if your not triggering the coil the ECU won’t know to inject fuel
 

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Discussion Starter #8
You're right on the test reading, however, another member said that was incorrect - wrong way round with test 7? It's in my previous thread... I don't know to be honest, just going on the advice of others. I have a spare amp that I can pop in if you suspect that?
 

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Hi

Sorry have not read the 124 replies in your other thread so please bear with.... have you carried tested the ignition load relay (yellow one by your right foot) plus the main relay next to the fuel pump relay (under drivers seat) and identical to the file pump relay. Also if not done already well worth changing the amp or at least testing it. Also have you checked the fuel intertia switch?

I had very similar issues to yours and despite hours of chasing the issue it ended up being a faulty dizzy. £200 later at least the problem was solved. Do you have a known good spare dizzy you could try.

I learned that no fuel at the plugs is often a red herring. If the ignition system is faulty that will mean no signal getting to the injectors even through the fuel system primes.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Just copying over my update on the other post - will try to keep everything here:

So, I've changed the amp out today. Testing the resistance between old and new read very differently. BUT, still no spark or fuel. I did realise why I've always had difficulties reinstalling the distributor though (not preempting the final position of the oil drive), so achieved something today, and fixed an intermittent window. But, in the process, the central locking for the first time in my ownership actually operated. Only trouble is, it's locked the fuel flap and now refuses to operate! This thing really doesn't want to go...

Anyway, more advice greatly received on the starting issue. No spark, no fuel, turns over fine, amp changed, everything else seems to check out. As has been said, I think the fuel is simply linked to the no spark issue rather than an entirely separate problem.

Headache. The matches are getting closer to the petrol tank... Wait, I can't get in it!! 🤣
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Range123 - how do I go about checking those relays? When I had the fizzy off today, I noticed the pick-up electrode was really rusty. I cleaned it off just in case but no difference. I can't see anything obviously wrong with the distributor - it's an old type Lucas one, could be the original. Would a faulty dizzy prevent sparks from being produced though? Surely I could still get a response from the coil itself? Forgive my stupidness, I really am not very good with electricity! I can follow a diagram and tests but don't always know what it means! I've only had Series landys before this - 1/2 inch spanner, wet and dry paper and some cable ties can fix most problems. The RRC is causing me difficulties! I've also had old Volvo's and they seemed more simple compared to this (and more reliable!)...
 

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I noticed the pick-up electrode was really rusty.
Do you mean the little one down underneath the shield inside the distributor? If so, that IS the points equivalent. As I've written in other thread, it makes a pulse every time one of the magnets passes it when rotating. This is what makes the amp switch the coil on and off.

But equally, the coil (when you disconnect the negative lead from the amp) with ignition power on (positive supply on) should throw a spark out when you manually use a earth wire. All the time earth is established to the negative post the coil will be storing energy, remove the earth and the stored energy comes out through the HT lead. If it can't do this then it's likely failed. This is essentially independent of any other system on the car.
 

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Silly question
i believe you said you have swapped the coil but have you proved your coils are good ie.: tested as said or tried on another vehicle, just because it’s a different one doesn’t mean it works, I’ve had this even with new parts!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Do you mean the little one down underneath the shield inside the distributor? If so, that IS the points equivalent. As I've written in other thread, it makes a pulse every time one of the magnets passes it when rotating. This is what makes the amp switch the coil on and off.

But equally, the coil (when you disconnect the negative lead from the amp) with ignition power on (positive supply on) should throw a spark out when you manually use a earth wire. All the time earth is established to the negative post the coil will be storing energy, remove the earth and the stored energy comes out through the HT lead. If it can't do this then it's likely failed. This is essentially independent of any other system on the car.
Yes, the one underneath the shield in the distributor. Do you know of a method to test this in an isolated way? I know this is what "replaces" the points in this type of ignition system. Maybe I'm not doing this second test properly - will reattempt...

Silly question
i believe you said you have swapped the coil but have you proved your coils are good ie.: tested as said or tried on another vehicle, just because it’s a different one doesn’t mean it works, I’ve had this even with new parts!
Well, I've tested the resistance and posted results above, likewise for the alternate coil I installed. Are there any further tests I can do? I am just being cautious not to keep buying parts without knowing they are the culprit...

Thanks all again.
 

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For information
gives insight into switching, but ignition is obviously a flying magnet to generate pulse.

I've not tested one of these in isolation, but just tried on mine as following;- set volt meter to ac, then took off amplifier to coil negative lead, connect black voltmeter to this lead from amplifier, and red lead to a positive supply from vehicle, now if it's cranked I get 0.4 to 0.6 volts measured. In other words it's showing a pulse and demonstrates switching is taking place.
It's not strictly technically correct but the voltmeter will sense fluctuations coming through that wire, no response equals no switching.
See if you have any response first, or just dead.
 

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If your not getting a spark from the coil ht lead when you do test as above, bringing the pos feed from the battery and triggering coil neg then the coil isn’t working !
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks for the help. The resistance readings check out but will have another go at getting a spark. Do have a spare that I think is okay. Working until Thursday so won't get much done before then...
 

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RRLondon is an excellent source of common sense and knowledge. He helped me loads. Might be worth checking this thread out which concluded with me changing the dizzy and solving my issues:

As far as testing relays are concerned I brought a £12 tester off eBay - brilliant bit of kit and saves a lot of messing about :
12V Universal Electronic Automotive Relay Tester For Car Auto Battery Checker

If you don't want a tester there is plenty of you tube stuff on how to test a relay I followed that... I'm no auto electrician either. When it comes to electrics I know enough to be dangerous but basically :

1. grab a multi meter
2. -ve cable to pin 85
3. +ve cable to 86 should read 8000 ohms or so

Test relay switching is open
1. +ve multimeter cable to pin 30
2. -ve cable to 87 should read zero

Testing relay switching operates
1. +ve cable to pin 86
2. -ve cable to pin 85 should hear a click as the relay operates.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Tested the coil again - big blue sparks but from the coil post rather than the lead... Did it with my spare too, same result. Am I doing something wrong? Needless to say, still no start situation. I was going to test the starter relay but didn't know where it was!
 
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