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Discussion Starter #1
Hello All.. I have a 1997 P38 4.6L On 33s (229k miles) that I just upgraded the Injectors to 4 hole.

The Initial start up... Fired right up and engine was smoother than ever. I WAS SO HAPPY!

Slow Speed Test Drive.. Without punching the throttle, She was very responsive, Much improved. At cruising speed 40-45, She ran good with occasional backfire. The backfire would clear if I gave a little more throttle.
Back road Highway.. Very Responsive and had. a bit more power it seemed, But the backfire was still there I'd goose it a clear it out.
Here's the problem.. At about 60 mph backfire started and I wanted to clear It so I gave it a decent goose (not to the floor) and man did it take off like never before....
And then POW, A good backfire and the engine died, Not able to restart.
Towed her home and still No Start.. Turns over well, But no start.. flume..flume..flume.. Pow..
She sounds as if she wants to start, But does not..
PLEASE HELP ME HELP HER!!


281698
 

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the back firing is most likely over fueling and igniting in the exhaust . you may have damaged a cat
what injector did you put in
 

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Another person that thinks he knows better than the man that designed it in the first place...... You only have yourself to blame.
 

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Well c'mon, he changes injectors, it no longer runs right and expects us to be able to tell him what the problem is. I suspect the problem is he's fitted the wrong injectors.
 

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I will guess a few spark plugs are messed up. I can't imagine a code for misfire and cat damage didn't show.
I get that if a plug wire is loose. Good Luck
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well c'mon, he changes injectors, it no longer runs right and expects us to be able to tell him what the problem is. I suspect the problem is he's fitted the wrong injectors.
First off... I dont EXPECT anything from anybody.. This is a P38 forum and I am not the first to change to 4 hole injectors, Therefore someone might have gone through the same issue and has a fix for me.
If you are not going to be part of the solution, Then you are part of the problem by bogging my thread with negative responses when there are others willing to be helpful.
Please stay off my thread if you can't be positive. I have enough stress by this issue without your two cent comments.
Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I will guess a few spark plugs are messed up. I can't imagine a code for misfire and cat damage didn't show.
I get that if a plug wire is loose. Good Luck
I did find one loose wire on #6 cylinder today while changing the coil packs,wires and plugs.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Since you've checked fuel already, be sure to check that there is spark. Any engine codes present?
Indeed I checked the spark. It did seem a bit faint to me so I ordered a new coil pack set, wires and plugs (old plugs maybe had 100 miles on them). Recieved and installed today, Still no start, But I have a pretty blue vivid spark now.
As far as codes go, I am unsure as of now, I will be getting a scan tool soon. The CEL was on already for misfire on 1 and 7 with new plugs and ok wires. I Chalked it up to the old injectors were going bad and here I Sit.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
97 RR P38 background... Project Ran Over
AKA The Turd..
Bought it for $750 U.S.. Drove it home 2 hrs away. Front seats all turn up, Low power, Shaking, barely able to do 65 mph, Unable to maintain highway speeds, constantly kicking down a gear or 2 with slightest mash of the throttle, bald tires and the brakes barely working, But she made it home and I called her worth it (I saw the potential).
The fix begins.
Part hunting for heads lights and 2 front seats. The cheapest found was a guy that wanted $300 for the lights and $300 for the seats (ummmm NO!). I wasn't going to do that merely due to the fact that I am building a weekend warrior and not a DD.
I found a guy selling a No start 2000 SE for $900. It sat in his work parking lot for 3 years, But the lights and interior were Nice, So I bought it for $750 as well. Woohoo a donor vehicle!! Later found a bad case of rust on the undercarriage as well.

Soooo.. The strip down on the interior began.. Dash, Seats, Console, Headliner, Carpet, Doors, Hood, etc..I removed 6 Aftermarket tweets and about a mile of stereo wire setup (Ghetto installed by the looks of things) And the transformation began.. a real day and night difference (Donor vehicle paid for itself already) on appearance. So, I put on some new plugs, Fuel filter, Air filter, Capped the egr intakes (temporarily) and put breather filters on the valve cover egr tubes. She ran much better, Still sluggish, But better!!

Next step (Let's get this thing stopping properly)... I put on new drilled and slotted Rotors, Pads, A FP caliper bracket (From donor RR) and flush, bleed and bedded..
Errrrrttt, Stops on a dime now (comparatively), I also did a fluid change... Oil, Diffs, Transfer case and Transmission.

Next step (lets fix the shaking (2 bent rims) and 4 bald tires. I wanted a cleaner newer look with some nice ATs, Knowing it was going to cost me. I really didnt care for what I was seeing with LRs and 20 inch rims (too big for what I'm doing with it). So, I found a set of factory Take Offs, Rubicon 17s with 285 70 17 (33s) KO2s For $1000. Will they fit? The front fenders had already been massaged by a previous owner that had 26s on it (LMAO!). I ordered a set of 1 1/2" Hub centric Jeep to LR adapters/spacers from USadaptors. Woohoo, They fit and the shake is gone, Mud holes here I come!!
She climbed well, Pushed through slushy mud well, Pulled people out OK-ish and was becoming a "Rabbit hole" for me, BC I fell in love with the ole girl, But that sluggishness though!!

Next step... Show me the power!
Thus far She had always fired right up, But she was lacking power. She was sluggish, I would have to throttle to the floor to get Her going (even with the Original wheels and tires vs the 33s, I expected some lose, But geez.) Upto 3-4k rpms and having to make it shift by letting off. On top of that She had kickdown issues while attempting to maintain speeds of about 55+ mph (She wasn't even able to do 70 mph at this point). I learned how to drive it locally (upto 45 mph), Without sounding like a total turd (Cat delete (shhhh) and Glasspacks helped, Sounds great!)...Ugh, I knew I'd better start looking/saving for a transmission rebuild/replcement. In the meantime of the fix, I searched and researched the transmission issues on P38 forums daily to no avail. I saw people talk about the issue-esk, But never saw a fix which leads us to 2 weeks ago.
Finally, I decided I was going to replace the trans filter (best 25 bucks spent plus fluid) I ordered the kit and had to wait a week, So I ordered a set of 4 hole injectors (researched and heard great things), She had a 1 and 7 misfire found by an advanced auto scan tool and I already changed the plugs.
The injectors came 1st (2 days), But I didnt want to tackle that job atm, plus I work and I really wanted to see what the trans filter would do 1st.
The Trans filter job was easy and a complete success (I was so happy!) And I planned on another Trans filter swap in 500-ish miles (To clear the old gunk). The magnet was missing so I added a nice little Neo while I had her open. She drove Great (Minus the sluggishness)!! No more of me making it shift, No more Kickdown, She was hitting 70+ mph and had some added oomph!! Me,The Mrs and our Shephard must drove about 150 miles on/off road that night.
She has really captivated me..

The next day.(Last Saturday). Injectors
What a job that is.. I took my time (I've never done them before, But not scared) and took extra caution around the open intake and open injection inlets. When they were done, I let it prime up a cpl times, She started right up, sputtered a bit and smoothed out with CEL still on. I let her idle til warmed up, Shut it down for a bit and let her cool down and then restart. It idled so smooth with a little backfire (New symptom) which I chalked up to the engine clearing out the old junk from with in.
The test drive...
Shes a bit peppier!! I so wanted to floor the throttle from a stand still, But refrained.
I Eased out to a 45 mph road, She's holding up well with an occasional backfiring (No cats and Glasspacks, Pop PoP POP) and a cop behind me, LOL. I swore he was going to pull me over for thinking that I was shooting a gun off, The backfire was so loud, But he didnt.
I learned quickly that if I feathered the throttle a bit the backfiring would stop and the same if I put it 3rd gear.
I took the truck as running well-esk, so I decided to see what she would do on a 60 mph Higjway. As I pulled out on to the HW, She had power!! She had get-up and I was so excited for this fact, But that Backfire though! I noticed it would backfire when maintaining speed (seemed to be any speed held) for a period of time.. Let off the gas, No backfire, Mash the gas a bit, No backfire.
I went maybe 10 Miles and turned around to head home, Thinking SUCCESS!!

And then it happened...
I was about 2 miles or so omw back home, Cruising speed, Happy as hell..
She began her little backfire, And BC I'm a genius, I decided that instead of letting off a bit or goosing a bit, I was going to give it the marbles and see what kind of power she had (Clear her out a bit) and I did just that...
So at about 60 mph I smashed that gas, Hit that passing gear, Whomp whoph, She took off like never before,Smiles spread across my face, That speedo was climbing,She wasn't shaking, She wasn't struggling at all and...
POW (Large backfire)... Bye bye power! Flump..Flump.. Flump... and sad face me having instant regerts... I know its regrets, But it felt like a Big ole tattoo gone wrong and I couldn't take it back.. I should have atleast waited til I got closer to home...
And now she sits, Patiently in the garage, waiting for us mend her....
It's been a 6 month project thus far and even though she's broken, I will give her more. I know what's shes capable of now and it gave me the happiest feeling for those 30 seconds (That's what she said,lol)..
I gave her new coil packs, plugs and wires today to no avail... I will put on the Original fuel injectors tomorrow and see what happens... I swear she really sounds like she wants to start.. Jump time maybe (230k)?
The story of Ran Over the P38.
 

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So now you've given the full story, it makes a lot more sense than simply, I changed for some aftermarket injectors and now it doesn't work. When you refer to a backfire do you mean from the exhaust or the intake? Backfire down the exhaust is due to too much unburnt fuel getting into the manifolds and igniting in there. That normally requires air to be present too so do you have an exhaust leak to allow air to get in anywhere? A backfire, or spit back, into the intake can be down to a lean mixture so do you have any intake air leaks anywhere (as you've had the top off to change the injectors), a decent bang can destroy the MAF. If it is the MAF you'll probably be able to get it to start by pumping the throttle pedal while cranking. It'll run like a dog but will run. Did you reset the adaptive values after you done the mods?
 

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you may have bent a valve or two with all the back firing?
what type brand of injector, whats the number on the side of the injector?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So now you've given the full story, it makes a lot more sense than simply, I changed for some aftermarket injectors and now it doesn't work. When you refer to a backfire do you mean from the exhaust or the intake? Backfire down the exhaust is due to too much unburnt fuel getting into the manifolds and igniting in there. That normally requires air to be present too so do you have an exhaust leak to allow air to get in anywhere? A backfire, or spit back, into the intake can be down to a lean mixture so do you have any intake air leaks anywhere (as you've had the top off to change the injectors), a decent bang can destroy the MAF. If it is the MAF you'll probably be able to get it to start by pumping the throttle pedal while cranking. It'll run like a dog but will run. Did you reset the adaptive values after you done the
I attempted to start her today, didn't start. As I was inspecting under the hood I elbow rested on the plenum and noticed it rather warm. I believe now that the backfire is through the intake due to the ambient temperatures around the intake plenum were a bit cooler than the top of the plenum. I put the Orginal injectors back in, still no change.
I bought a simple code reader today.
Codes read multiple Misfires. Misfire on 1and 7. P1313 camshaft sensor.
Is it possible to have both backfires? Exhaust and Intake? I wonder if the large backfire blew out my intake gasket...
I did not reset values, what is a decent and inexpensive tool to do such?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks for the helpful tips everyone! Its leading to me opening the motor up and that is going to take some time for me. I will keep y'all informed on the progress.. With No AC, No Heat and No radio, I am considering buying another P38 (A 2000 with AC, Heat, Radio). I really like my 97', But a new motor is $5k+ plus install, A used motor is about $2000 plus install or buy the 2000 for $2k and slowly rebuild the 97'.. Time is a factor BC of work and family.
 
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